Santana?
Dec 3rd, 2007 by Curt Schilling
A rotation featuring Beckett, Santana as the top two is pretty much as good as it can get. The thought of pitching behind these guys has to fire ya up. That being said I look at it like this.
If we make the move we’ll have done so with Theo knowing whatever he had to trade to acquire him he can restock those spots either from within, or via trade. How much is too much when you’re talking about trading for the best left handed pitcher in the game? How much is too much when you consider what he and Josh could do over the next 5-6 years.
Whatever is too much I am more than confident that we won’t get there. Based on the offers I know are out there I can’t see anyone out bidding us talent wise. The second part of this deal is the one that really narrows this down to a few suitors at most. Whatever contract Johan negotiates God Bless Him. If you were going to set a record for a contract with a starting pitcher this guy and about 3-4 others in the game would be the best bets.
I don’t see any of the other players holding this deal up from either NY or Boston. Neither team will let him slip through their hands because they want to hold onto a AA or AAA potential star. I think it’s going to come down to the value Minnesota places in Philip Hughes/Melky Cabrera vs the top 2-3 players in this deal from our side.
The good thing here is that as of today, at some point, NY bows out if the Twins don’t accept their offer. If that happens, which I don’t think it will, I think Minnesota will weigh the two offers and make a decision on one today, unless of course there is a dark horse involved like Anaheim, the Mets or Dodgers.
Winter around here seems to be a lot more fun these past few years and I think it may get a lot more interesting before the nights over.
The prospect of losing some of our great young players to get a great pitcher … it’s enough to distract me from tonight’s Pats game!
Hey Curt,
No feedback on the Santana signing, just that I hate to see Ellsbury go. But that’s more sentimental than logical. My real comment is on your professionalism and the tone of your reporting about someone essentially displacing you as the #2 pitcher on this team. I speak for many Sox fans when I say that we’re happy to have you on the team and your attitude toward this potential trade just illustrates what kind of team-first winner you are.
Congrats on yet another World Series title. And thanks from a big fan.
Justin
Last year we followed the Matsuzaka negotiations now we follow the Santana sweepstakes.
Nothing more fun than Red Sox talk in the winter.
Beckett and Santana as the top two would be so nasty! I would hate to see Jacoby go though, we just love him here in the Great Northwest.
You’re are absolutely correct. Both NY and Boston are the major players here. They have the talent and the money to satisfy the Twins for Santana. I do, however, think that they are asking for too much talent for one pitcher. Boston having to put Ellsbury on the deal is a little much. Minnesota is holding the cards though. Ultimately, it’s their decision on who’s offering the better deal. Regardless of if it’s the Sox or the Yanks, whoever gets Santana may be getting more trouble than their barganing for.
It would be pretty awsome to have Santana….The Sox would then be able to really dominate.
Not that you all aren’t dominating already 
But I do hope that we don’t get rid of Jacoby….Even though it is business I thought it was really cool how he handled the playoffs and the World Series. Definately getting interesting this winter! I do agree with ya Curt: he would look good in a Red Sox uniform!
I have been a redsox fan for 60yrs, and Ellesberry is the most exciting player I have seen ever on this team,if they trade him I think It will be the biggest mistake they have made since they traded “babe Ruth”. I hope if he is traded that he becomes a super star and comes back and beats them every time they meet!!!. I will be routing for the team he is on “against” the redsox. Maybe we can start another hex on the sox for about 82yrs.
mickmck707.
Boston
A dream rotation but not if Ellsbury is included. The kid is on his way to being a superstar! My guess is Santana-Claus will wind up with the dreaded Yankees. They are still weak in solid, dependable pitching and after Boston’s dealings last season for the two boys from Japan, I don’t think NY will let the Sox get away with another super-deal. If I’m wrong, then perhaps I can land a job as a sports writer or broadcaster!
Over a foot of new snow up here in Maine. Where are the tourists when we need all the snow shovelers we can get?
Ted
This is a tough one for me.
Emotionally (bad way to think about it), I love all our young guys. I’d hate to lose any of them.
However, Johan is a total stud. He could be Pedro II (sorry Curt, he’s too young to be Curt II).
However, the risks are high. Johan could be Pedro II for either BOS or NYY. Or he could be Kevin Brown II or Pavono II or Zito II etc. (you get the idea- enormous $/win for an injured/broken pitcher). Lester, Clay, Jacoby all have great potential, but we don’t really know how they will pan out. But they’re cheap for the near future.
Frankly, I think the best outcome would be for the Dodgers or someone far away and not very good in the NL to get him. Of course, the worst case is that NYY gets him (unless his arm proceeds to fall off, in which case it’s a near best case). I can’t complain at all if we get him, but it does tie up a lot of money, so he better be good for several years.
But in Theo I trust (bad moves in the past notwithstanding).
The question is do you give up Ellsbury and Lester for one pitcher. No matter how good he is do you give up a Ellsbury who will play for you for the next 10 years and Lester who could very well blossom into a strong #3 or 2 guy for the best Left Hander for the say the next 3 or 4 years. To me the talent required to obtain him plus the cost to hire him put a burden on the organization down the road. Look how A Rod’s deal crippled Texas (not that we are Texas) but a salary like that is often times unjusifiable.
Just my thoughts
Hmmm. Since I’m on the outside looking in, I can’t say that I have the same confidence on feeling that the center field replacement will be comprable should the deal including a certain younger player actually come to fruition.
But, I don’t play for the management…nor do I know the management. I just play “armchair management”.
Funny, he was my only “hell no” player. So very interesting to see how the rest of today plays out…
Curt: In the comment on the Santana rumors, you have partially answered a question that we were asking around the table yesterday. Do baseball players read all these reports all winter and wonder whether they will be playing in (fill in the blank) as opposed to Boston next spring. It would drive me crazy if, all winter long, I was reading that my employer might be shipping me and my family to parts unknown. So my answer in the family discussion yesterday was that players probably don’t read any of these accounts. But clearly you do. If you were doing so, and were in the early part of your career and were being mentioned as a possible part of a future trade, how would that affect you and your outlook toward the Red Sox if you weren’t traded? Is this just “part of the business of baseball” that is accepted by all? Thanks.
As much as I would LOVE to have Santana, I’m not too excited about giving up Ellsbury. He was HUGE late in the season and even more so in the post-season.
I know Santana is a proven player, but I’m just wondering if it is worth sacrificing the potential in Ellsbury when our starting line-up is already, arguably, the best in baseball.
The only thing that has been getting me to sleep at night is knowing that Theo has already put together two WS championship teams in the past 3 years, so I have to believe that he knows what he’s doing. It’s great having your insight on these issues. I’m so glad you’re going to be back in a Sox uniform!
Adding Johan would make The Boston Red Sox’s rotation, possibly the best in the history of baseball. But with a guy like Jacoby on the line, who has talent that’s made a lot of our jaws drop and not to mention how he did seem to fire everybody up in the ALCS, it’s hard to imagine seeing him off so quickly. He turned into a fan favorite immediately, he also got America some free tacos! Whatever happens, Theo knows what he’s doing, he hasn’t failed us yet.
“Winter around here seems to be a lot funner these past few years and I think it may get a lot more interesting before the nights over.”
Yeah - that’s primarily because ownership / management (and I count the coaches in this group) have done such a spectacular job developing talented kids in the minors. We saw the dividends paid this season, big-time: Pedroia playing an excellent 2b, Ellsbury getting the call and performing like an All Star (in an admittedly small sample), Lester winning the clinching game 4 of the Series, Buchholz tossing a no-hitter at the O’s.
Real fans of a team, I think, enjoy nothing more than seeing some kid come up through their system and then excel on the big stage. Very few free agents can replicate the affection we attach to these kids, unless they’re integral to an extraordinary circumstance (the ‘04 Series win, for example). Conversely, it becomes very difficult to see these kids traded away after getting just a hint of how successful they can be.
Remember, this is a fanbase still whipping a defunct ownership over the Jeff Bagwell trade.
Even if Santana’s perfectly healthy, where’s he going to slot into the rotation? You can’t slot him # 1 with Beckett on the roster - that would be a slap in the face to him. But isn’t slotting Santana # 2 a slap in the face to Santana? We all know there’s a lot - a lot - of ego in professional athletics. There has to be in order for people to reach the level of expertise you reach.
Then, how do you justify the Beckett contract against the ridiculous dollars Santana will command? It could well be that you can’t simply look at the $120 - $150mm that Santana will command, but at the requisite price jump for Beckett’s services in order to keep him content. See my eariler comment on ego in pro athletes.
Then, if Lester is still in the wings, you’ve got Lester, Buchholz and Wakefield all battling for the final rotation spot. Do you stick Tim in the pen, a place he seemingly hasn’t enjoyed being relegated to? If not, are you going to take two young guys who have higher ceilings and keep them out of your rotation in order to spare Tim’s feelings?
How are you going to feel having to make a press release if Santana ends up missing 18 months with TJ surgery? That’s a hell of a lot more palatable for a kid making $400k a season than a guy you gave up kids for and are on the hook for $50mm at two seasons of lost performance.
We’ve watched teams get burned over and over and over by exhorbitant FA signings. The bad contracts probably outweigh the good ones by a margin of 4-1, if not more. I just think it’s ill advised to sign huge contracts when the in-house talent dictates that you don’t need to.
I’ve never heard anything but priase for Santana from any writher out there - his dedication to his team and his city, his professional ethics. His results have spoken for themselves.
And I still don’t want to see the Sox sign him.
Check your spelling, funner isn’t a word.
And I thought all my nail-biting days were over until April !!
Curt, have fun on Wednesday w/ McCain. I was never into politics until 9/11. Now I do care who the leader of the free world is. But I must say that anyone who truly wants to be President needs their head examined first, especially in this day and age.
Whether the Sox get Santana or not, I trust Theo and staff to put together another great squad in 2008. I do think it’s great, though, to read the Sox may be playing head games with the Yankees. GO SOX!
Amy
How do you feel about Theo offering jacoby ellsbury as part of this trade? As much as I like Jon Lester I could see him going. But in my opinion I feel ellsbury is a future star and will be great in Boston. What are your thoughts?
If the old axiom “you can never have enough pitching” is ever going to be tested, next year would be it if we end up with Santana!
I can’t argue that fact that Santana just might be the best left handed pitcher in the game right now. I’m not sure I would be willing to throw Jacoby in the mix to get him though. The mere thought of listening to Bob Lobel saying, “Why can’t we get players like that” would kill me! I sincerely hope that somehow we can indeed get Santana without having to part with Jacoby.
I think we have the best pitching in baseball, and we shouldn’t change a thing.
Beckett is the next great pitcher, who’s name will someday be ranked among the best ever. You, Curt, are already there!
Then there’s Dice-K, who I think will have an incredible season, and the heroic Lester and no-hit Clay… It doesn’t get much better!
Plus we got veteran Wake in there, who we know can deal with anything!
I think that Jacoby Ellsbury will follow Jim Rice, Nomar, Manny and Big Papi as the next “face” of the Red Sox. He’s going to be one of the best. No pitcher in the world is worth Jacoby. Besides, we already have the best.
-Chuck
If Yanks get Santana. Santana, wang,andy p is pretty good
Curt,
Heard you were in the Big Easy after the fact, sorry I missed the opportunity to hear you speak. One of my fellow Red Sox Nation members said he saw you at lakeside mall, but didn’t want to intrude.
Regarding the Santana Deal. I’m not against trying to get Santana into our already incredible rotation. However, I’m not so sure that it’s worth losing Jacoby Ellsbury over. Would it be nice to get him? Sure! Do we absolutely need him? No, not really.
Congrats on another fantastic Season!
Keep up the great work.
Jim Berube
Even though I’d miss Jacoby, I feel if we have the chance we need to do it. Knowing we could dominate for the next five to six years is too good to pass up.
Ellsbury is too much! The Red Sox shouldn’t invest their future in a pitcher we don’t NEED. We’ve already got you, Beckett, Dice-K, Lester (unless he stays in the trade), Wakefield and Buchholtz — that’s a 6-man rotation as-is! If we’re going to give up Lester & Crisp, fine — but no, just no, to Ellsbury & Buchholtz.
Please let Theo know what we fans think!
Curt,
While having John would be great, I really hope Theo doesn’t trade Jacoby Ellsbury. Jacoby not only has the tools to make an impact 162 games a season, but provides that top-of-the-lineup spark that ignites an offense.
Thanks for keeping this blog. I enjoy getting your insight.
Curt-
Is it really worth it to get Santana if we have to give up Jacoby Ellsbury as well as Jed Lowrie and another prospect? I am completely against giving up Jakobe, i’m not sure you realize how much love RSN has accumulated for the kid. I saw him as the new centerfielder once we trade Coco.
I just dont think 150 million dollars is worth giving to a pitcher, seeing as how their health seems to fluctuate drastically. lets keep our prospects and let santana go have 2 good seasons then take up 25 million dollars of payroll for the yankees for the next 4 years as he gets injured and never quite recovers.
“Winter around here seems to be a lot FUNNER these past few years and I think it may get a lot more interesting before the nights over.”
“More fun” Curt, more fun!
Great piece.
Well said Curt, man you can make the crazy world of business in baseball comprehenable to the avergage person. Thanks, otherwise I would have no idea.
Curt,
I see the beauty of having a southpaw like Santana. But I just worry that we could be loosing another future hall of famer in Jacoby. I really think that he was the spark that got the offense going in September, just when it was needed. I am not a sage when it comes to the front office. But my gut is feeling a little knotted at the thought of loosing such a fine player
David
I think giving up Jacoby Ellsbury might be too much. He is an exciting young player and I would hate to see him leave Boston and bring that excitement to another club. I would love to see the Red Sox land Santana, but I would hate to see the Red Sox trade away prospects
Hi Curt,
I agree 100% that holding prospects that MAY prove to be great ballplayers down the line is not an option here. I agree with the Sports Guy when he said if you can give up a few players who are not even in your top 15 from last year and get back Johan, it’s a no brainer.
I wish the Sox luck in this!
I am so glad that I don’t have to make the decision that Theo and the baseball operations crew have to make here. Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz…what a tremendous group of talented young players, the likes of which we have not seen since Lynn, Rice, Fisk, Burleson et. al. Ellsbury in particular could be the “leader of the band” for years. My gut says don’t do it. But Johann is one of the best…or he has been. Trading any of those three will tear my guts apart. But when I look at the pitching staff the team would have for several years I don’t think anyone in baseball can match it. Whatever the team decides I pray it is the right decision.
Thanks for your perspective Curt.
Heya Curt!
I’m sure it Santana would be a welcome addition to the team if Boston does land him via trade. Will miss seeing ellsbury in a red sox uniform if ever he gets included in the deal but then Epstein has proven over the years that he does know what is best!
I’m just as thrilled as everyone to see have Santana in the rotation!
- your big fan in Manila
What would bringing in Santana do to Josh’s ego/psyche? I think we can all agree that he pretty clearly established himself as the ace of the staff last year (with all due respect to you, Curt) - but with his resume Santana surely could lay claim to that role himself. So I guess the question is: would either of these guys insist on being the staff ace?
“funner”? You can be such a kid at times and it’s good to see that show through. Have a happy holiday and as always, I enjoy reading your news, I can’t think of anything “funner”
Chris
Plainfield, CT
Curt,
I just signed up for a WordPress account but have been reading your blog for a few months now! So much to catch up on… but for starters I want to talk about the possibility of adding Santana to the Sox rotation. I’m not nieve enough to think that by adding Santana that the Sox would dominate, however, there are some disturbing factors that tip the scale in favor of not going through with the trade for me. The pitchers named in the trade (not both) have been Buchholz or Lester with either Coco or Jacoby filling the Twins hole in centerfield left behind by the departure of Torii Hunter. I’m no Theo Epstein, and I have faith in whatever he decides, however if it were me the only possible trade i would entertain is Buchholz and Crisp and a AA guy or two for Santana. Lester is a quality lefty that was highly touted and also proved himself on the biggest stage of all. Ellsbury is a great 5 tool player that also took over a starting position and performed, dare i say, at an MVP level on the greatest stage of them all. If the Twins don’t want Coco, Buchholz, and a few AA guys… no deal. There are no guarantees that Santana will sign a contract extension with the Sox. Perhaps Epstein knows the likeliness of signing Santana to a long term deal, but can you imagine giving up the aforementioned talent for just one year of Santana’s services? The fact that we have a rotation that includes Curt freakin Schilling for 2008, why mortgage the future on the possibility of just getting Santana for that same time frame?
Just my thoughts… Go Sox!
Doug Dillon
I just sit and imagine what some of the young pitchers like Lester and Buchholz will be able to learn from someone like Santana. I mean he has a DEVASTATING change and it would be sweet to see other members of the staff able to tie it into their repitoires. I just wonder what his mental make-up is and will he be able to handle the pressures of Boston. Different worlds Minnesota to Mass. Now I am down in Atlanta and was wonodering how JD would play out in the media especially since he was getting hammered down here for not playing through some injuries. The thought of what the rotation would look like impresses me a whole lot more with Santana in it then what the batting order would look like with Jacoby on top of it. PLus Jacoby is a sky high value right now. I would like to see up hold onto Clay and Jon and let them learn next year from you and Santana and Beckett.
Seth
Curt, I couldn’t agree with you more, if anyone can attest to the fact that if you really want any of these prospects back, at some point (see Schilling for Boddicker) you can sign them as free agents…the RedSox and the yanks are two of the few teams out there that can afford to ship prospects to teams that need young and cheap talent to survive…I mean you can look at it from the perspective that it keeps the ebb and flow of baseball prosperous….Where would Florida be if they didn’t deal Beckett for Hanley Rameriz..i mean the Sox could have both right now!!imagine that , Is that good for baseball?
Curt,
I think the Yankees need to make this deal more than the Red Sox do. If he ends up pitching with yourself, Josh, Dice, Clay, etc. that pitching staff will be the uncontested best staff in the game. As a Yanks fan, its bitter-sweet to see Melky and Phil go, but we have needed a true ace for a few years now. I hope Hank didn’t mess this deal up with his comments yesterday.
Curt-
Are we really supposed to believe the Yankees will walk away? I guess we can take them for their word. They did, after all, walk away from A-Rod…oops!
A rotation with you, Beckett, Santana, Dice-K, and Wake/Lester/Buchholz would be absolutely legendary. How can we not win the division with that rotation? It’s going to be hard to beat out the Yankees though. They say they are going to pull out today but who really believes that. It will be hard to give up the talent we will be giving up but it’s worth it when you are getting a Pedro-like acquisition. Lets just hope we get #57 in a Red Sox uniform.
By the way Curt, If you want to check out an awesome sports site it would be awesome if you made a post at prosportsdaily.com/forums. The Red Sox forum there is no where near SOSH, but it is still the second best Red Sox site I have been too.
The thought of having a rotation of Beckett, Santana, Schilling, Dice-K, and Wakefield/Bucholz/Lester is just unbelievable…how could we not win it all next year? Virtually the same exact team plus arguably the best pitcher in the game (and if he’s not, then Beckett is.) Pretty awesome to think about, but I’m still not sure I want to part with Jacoby or Lester…
I am looking forward to seeing what the Red Sox do over this winter; however, is giving up Ellsbury really worth it in your opinion?
I believe that this by far is the most interesting baseball winter in a long time.
On a side note, i am interested to hear your opinion on the BCS and college football. Are you excited about Ohio St and LSU playing in the National Championship?
I hope all is well!
-JCM
Please, tell me Theo isn’t really considering trading Ellsbury. Pay them whatever, but keep Ellsbury in CF.
Curt I would love to have Santana, but it would be sad to see Ellsbury go. How annoying is it to be under trade speculation, knowing that you could potentionally have to move across the country, or god forbid, to Canada.
Curt, I am interested in what you think of the possibility of the Sox giving up Ellsbury for Santana. I realize that Santana is one of the best pitchers in baseball(in my mind, after Beckett, but then again, I am an unashamed huge Beckett fan!). But I can’t quite wrap my mind around giving up Jacoby Ellsbury, after all he added to the team during his call up and the post season. I’d love to hear your thoughts as a player.
Having watched this unfold I hope the redsox fans and players have the chance to see this deal get done. Since many of us remember something about 86 years between titles. You should always try to win right here and right now because it sometimes isn’t that easy. I remember the sox signing this great pitcher from Arizona a few years ago who seems to have made a little impact.
Hoyeman
Curt love the blog. I just have one question………How do you feel about the possibility of losing Jacoby, who has become such a fan favorite in a short period of time?
Could not agree more, Curt. Good luck in the Santana Sweepstakes, even though we don’t particularly need him.
Wow, the thought of landing this guy is just too much. Imagine the possibility of having two potential 20 game winners on the staff (with the possibility of a 3rd if Daisuke gets to where he wants to be). I just have a hard time parting with some of that young talent. We have gotten a little spoiled watching them perform wonders the past few seasons and get attached. That being said, who do you feel would affect the team more if they are traded away? Lester is a great talent, but im my opinion the depth of the current rotation and the kids still in the system out- weigh the issue with center field. I understand this would be touchy for you to comment on, but I’d be curious on your opinion.
Thanks again for always being brutaly honest and keeping us posted on all things Curt Schilling. And thanks again for making my 23rd birthday (Nov. 2
one of my best so far
Joe Cacciatore
I want Santana, but not enough to want to see Ellsbury in another uniform. Who’s with me??
I want Santana but is it worth giving up the future and not leting the next generation see a wining red sox team? If they can get Santana for
Lester and Bucholtz and maybe even Coco for a long term 7-10 year deal then I would say Theo go for it but I wouldn’t give up Jacoby.
I love the idea of having Santana in Boston for the next 5 or 6 years. I will understand why Theo chose to make this deal, if it does happen, because top-tier pitchers at the height of their game are hard to come by. But there is something really special about Ellsbury, that I think Boston fans have only begun to witness. Personally, I’d like to see Theo hang on to Jacoby, because he could be a fixture in centerfield that would very exciting to watch for many years to come. I love what Coco has done with his glove, and I would like him to stay in Boston as well, but I think there is so much more upside to the offensive punch that Jacoby would provide, that it would be worthwhile to hang on to him, even if it meant missing out on Santana.
Winter around here has been more fun since thanksgiving 2003, Glad you are here with us to enjoy it. No off season in Red Sox Nation though.
real cool stuff curt. i think it’s great to hear commentary on this from a player, especially one who has been at the center of discussions like these. unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we’re going to have the opportunity to rob the twins like we did the dbacks.
Mr.Schilling,
I understand everyone’s concern’s on trying to attain Mr.Santana, but at what cost is it to the nation. Absolutley Mr. Santana is a power on the mound, but like you know who playing 3rd base for the evil empire does not mean that he will fit in .
Also, we also have Manny to sign next year , so if we do land Mr. Santana @ $150 million for 5 or 6 years and then pour another $100 million or so on Manny who’s going to suffer when it’s there turn for a new contract.
We traded Heminez to florida and he was rookie of the year and now we have Ellsbury a potentail star and without his contributions, who know’s how the Indians series would turned out . Don’t we need a center fielder?
As with yourself and Mr. Lowell loyality is the key, not always money . What if the Sox traded Fred Lynn when he was a rookie , now that would of created an outbreak of some very angry folks. I’m willing to say go along with the trade, but Ellsbury must not be on the table.
As the Yankee’s are concerned they are big trouble no matter if the land Mr. Santana or not. You have A-Rod $314 million , Santana $150 million plus . A half a billion dollars on 2 players , now that’s crazy . The nation is in a great spot with players wanting to come to bean town.
Bob- Wichita, Kansas
The hot stove certainly is burning, Curt! How do you think the addition of Santana would effect the possibilty of a 6 + man rotation?
This winter has been far more interesting than any that I could remember.
Question for you, Curt: If the Yankees secure Santana, do you see Theo and the brass going after Erik Bedard of the Orioles? What are your opinions of the left hander?
Anthony
i agree curt………hes a premier lefty…..they dont grow on trees. after these last few years i have to trust theo and the gang that they know what they are doing…….if you can get santana you have to do it……theos track record speaks for itself….
Curt-
I agree. It would be a dream rotation for years to come. Can you imagine a post-season opponent feeling any confidence in a short series against us?
-EP
Editor-In-Chief
Fenwaynation.com
The Yankees also gave A-Rod an ultimatum, so I won’t count on their being out of the running if a deal doesn’t go down today!
What about Jacoby Ellsbury? He has a great future with the Sox! Are they willing to trade that away?
Curt first thank you for leading the Sox in 2004 and helping 2007 to W.S. WIN.
I agree Beckett,Santana,THE best 1-2 in the Bigs then Dice,Shill, CLAY/WAKE/LESTER would make a great starting rotation.
What would I give up a lot win now the window is small
the need to win is there. to not give up the future.
But the future is Now.We have waited to long.
When the window is open you need to win as many W.S. as you can. You may not get this close again for a long time.
My Grandfaters were both SOX Fans
They saw the sox win 5 W.S.
My father worked for the Sox and he died at age 32 never saw them win the W.S.
My son and I have seen them win 2. I want to see them
win many,many more.Theo is young smart and capable
I enjoy the Henry Tradition WIN AND WIN NOW..
Santana can do this I do not want to give up young talent
but sometimes you have to give it up to win.
5-6 years of JOHAN,JOSH,AND DICE thats a good start.
We also have only a few more years and Big Papi And Manny being Manny will be but a memory.
Win Now. Please Theo if you Read this Blog.
WIN keep the future in mind.
I have always felt good about the SOX.
I now know the sox are in good hands
with a good Owner,G.M. and Manager
GO THEO,TITO,AND Mr.Henry,
THANK YOU CURT FOR COMING BACK TO THE RED SOX
AND SHOWING THIS TEAM HOW TO WIN!!!!!!
I admire the fact that you are obviously a real fan of the game. It’s so refreshing to hear your perspective. You are a real class act, Curt, and an excellent role model…not just for our youth but also for adults. Thank you for being the unselfish, giving human being whom you are.
hey curt, as a yankee fan if you get santana its turn out the lights for yankee fans for many years to come……………….best wishes
Curt, I agree and I think that Theo is playing this the right way. For some reason, the Twins seem to prefer the Sox’ potential return over the Yankees’. Maybe they’re still pissed that Eric Milton didn’t turn out the way they envisioned when they dealt Knoblauch. Regardless, let the Steinbrenners self destruct (which is what appears to be happening) while Theo takes his time and deliberately stalls while caving in to include Ellsbury with Lester. As a Sox fan it’s tough not to love Ellsbury but to get Santana? In a heartbeat. A leadoff guy with no power is easier to replace than a multiple Cy Young winner.
I also agree that the Dodgers may be a darkhorse sneaking in, although they really need hitting first. Their prospects are as good if not better than the Sox’ or Yanks’ and they could give a cheap closer in Broxton allowing the Twins to shop Nathan. Who knows.
Best of luck in the offseason.
Ok a Twins fan here. I can’t believe we would trade Johan Santana for what the Sox are offering. I saw Ellsbury in the World Series…and yes he really played well. I’ll admit he is a good player and is a hustler. A class act and a guy you want on your team.
But I look at his numbers at every level…he’s a 300 hitter that steals bases and will hit 12 homers a year. Yes he plays a great center field. But his offensive numbers are simply above average. Not great.
Santana, on the other hand, is the best left hander I have seen in about 25 years. People outside Minny see his strikeouts, they see how he can just dominate a game but one thing folks don’t see is the guys unbelievable consistency. He is good is every game. The only reason he hasn’t been 23-5 over the last 5 years is that Twins have a sub-par offense. If you look at his numbers in 2005 (the year in between the Cy Youngs) he should have one that won as well…and the only reason he did not was wins and loses. His stats were the best.
On the Sox or Yankees this guy will win 25 games.
He’s always healthy, and he is a gamer. His attitude is perfect.
For what the Sox are offering…you are stealing him.
Curt, I am hoping Ellsbury, Buchholz, and Lester remain on the team. 25 million is a lot for one player. I think all three of these guys have proven that they are more then unproven AAA guys. One pitched a no hitter in his 2nd start. The other won Game 4 of the World Series. And the other was considered for WS MVP by batting 438 in these series. In fact Jacoby was an integral part of the team’s championship run IMO. In fact two of the three already have a been postseason track record then Johan Santana. Santana in the postseason is 1-4 with a 3.97 ERA. Jon only gave up 2 runs in 9 and a third innings in the postseason. His career ERA is 6.89 in Fenway. The Sox did not need Roger Clemens. You and the Sox do not need Santana. In fact signing him to this kind of money could hinder the team from keeping essential players in the future like Josh Beckett and Jonathan Papelbon. Investing that much money in Santana might hinder the Red Sox from keeping Beckett long-term. And also a lot of fans like myself are very excited about getting to see Ellsbury play. He is an extremely exciting player and could be an AL version of Jose Reyes. I don’t see the Mets trading Reyes.
Hello Curt,
I am sure that you do not remember me but my parents and I had the pleasure of meeting you in August 2006 during the Yankees home stretch. My father is among the unfortunate people who has suffered from ALS. Unfortunately my father lost his battle last Thursday with ALS. I just wanted to let you know the pleasure it brought to my parents life to have the opportunity to meet you. That day brought such joy to both my father and my mother’s life and I wanted you to know how grateful I am to you for that. Hopefully we will find a cure for the disease soon so no one else has to suffer. Thank you again of bringing such happiness to their life during such a tough time. I could never thank you enough.
Marisa
Hah, the Yanks are all talk anyway. I’m sure they’re putting up a deadline just to try and make things easier for themselves, but if Minnesota comes back to them in a month and says they’d like to accept the Yanks offer, they’re not gonna turn it down. Let’s face it, it’s Johan Santana. I’m already a big fan of Ellsbury, Lester and Bucholz, I’d hate to give any one of them up. But if we’re going to give up any one of them, who better to do it for than Mr. Johan Santana. Should be interesting. Worst case scenario we have a rotation of Beckett, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Lester, with Bucholz getting starts in, and Ellsbury as our starting centerfielder. It’s hard not to be optimistic.
Your sorry team as well as your fans wish that you get Santana in your team. That will never happen. You can;t comapre stabliushed players like the yankees have to some third level players like the ones that you want to give to the Twins. By the way, ever since you were in Arizona I have never liked your attitude for the game. You wish you would had pitched for the Yankees sometime in your career.
The Red Sox will not win the division in 2008, 2009 or 2010. You got lucky this year since the yanks had some many players hurt. 2008 will be a different story
Hi Curt,
When I heard that Theo put Jacoby out there I nearly threw up! Jacoby? JACOBY!?!
Please relay the following to Theo: The Kid Stays!
I cannot begin to believe that we would even think of trading Ellsbury - the fans really believe, justifiably, that they will have the chance to see this young kid blossom into a superstar before their eyes, and it stinks to deprive them of it. The team will do it without Santana - would like to see us get Johan, but not by trading Ellsbury!
As much as i’d LOVE to get Johan… i LOVE Jacoby Ellsbury and we shouldnt give him up…. my buddy and i wrote and recorded a song last night titled “Don’t Trade Jacoby”. Please check it out and leave some feedback…
…and Mr. Curt Schilling you are my hero! Thank you for everything you’ve done for this team. You are a true gentleman!
Santana is very impressive, no question here. But I agree with the other folks who wonder if trading Ellsbury away is such a good idea. When I see Ellsbury, I think Joe Dimaggio or our own Ted Williams. I believe he has that kind of potential. It’s also great to see a player move through minor league ball into the bigs in one organization. Finally there’s are the intangible considerations. In Ellsbury’s case, I think he’ll make an outstanding member of the Red Sox in terms of ability,determination, and class.
no;
dan harren’d be a much more sensible option, fiscally as well as baseball wise.
santana certainly is great; it’s just something about it feels wrong, or out of place.
and you know what else, any player this (new) steinbrenner wants from this moment going forward he ought to be allowed to have, for no other (nor better) reason than he is a total dumbass, and dumbasses usually shoot themselves in the foot… in their mouths.
peaches!
I’m really torn about the whole Santana thing. I’ve been following Clay since he hit the Seadogs, me and my mom would check the web and find out when his starts were just to see him play and boy is he something special. I’ve seen Jacoby play on a couple occasions in AA plus his play in the bigs and he has superstar potential. Jon Lester is going to be a solid pitcher. It would be hard for me to imagine the Sox without any one of these 3 over the next few years. Santana would bring a lot to this team, Beckett, Santana, Dice-K, Schill, Wake/whoever would make one amazing rotation. When Tim Wakefield, Clay Bucholz or Jon Lester are 5th in a rotation you know its one for the books. It’s the whole future vs. present thing, Santana could get us another WS instantly, while the 3 kids could bring us several in a few years. I’d be heart broken to see any of them go, but I would understand why. Here’s to another one folks.
I have read the points made here and think some of you are missing Curt’s point.
As a Twins fan, I can tell you that the majority of those oppossing this clearly do not have any idea just how incredible Santana is. I think it is safe to say he has been baseball’s best pitcher over the past four years but you need to consider more than just accilades.
1) In the past four years he has put up over 900 innings; a testiment to his durabiity that I’m sure Curt can attest to. Did I mention he is left handed? Also despite the perception, his changup isn’t his only pitch.
2) During that span….playing 1/2 of his games roughly in the Metrodome which is hardly pitcher friendly, Santana has had three years with ERA’s under 3 and his “off” year, 3.33.
3) Despite not getting elevated to a starting pitcher until after a couple of seasons in relief, his record is a staggering 93-44; this playing on a team that has been pretty decent and pretty poor through that stretch.
4) Prior to last season, the most losses Santana has taken in the previous four years was SEVEN; this inspite of the fact that he started 118 games during that span. One of the reasons the Twins relief staff had been so dominant was that they knew every five days there was no way they had to bring in a relief pitcher until at least the seventh inniing. The amount of “quality starts” by Santana in relation to any other pitcher in the league over the past five years is not comparable.
5) He has had 983 K’s in the past four years; a number I doubt any other pitcher in baseball can touch. Santana, at 29, has done something that even a pitcher of HOF credentials in my opinion (and the gentleman whose blog we are enjoying, C.S,) has not done during his fantastic career; throw four consecutive seasons of 235+ K.
6) Did I mention he is left handed? Does anyone not think the Yankees are accutely aware of how much damage a great left hander presents? Right handed batters have a career .220 average and more importantly only a .276 OBP against him. No one steals on him, no one bunts on him and he just won a Gold Glove. This guy is absolutly the complete package.
And he is only 29
So look, with regards to the talent the Sox may end up having to part with; undoubtedly it is legitimate and would be difficult to replace but I have news for you, they will be replacable but a once in a generation perhaps pitcher of Santana’s ilk simply is not.
The good news for Twins fans is that they may actually have someone in Liriano in the wings who could be better….health permitting.
If you get him, enjoy him for a good 7-8 years because believe me, he will be at the top of that already very impressive rotation.
As much as i hate to admit it, Pitchers don’t win games by themselves. An outfielder like Jacoby will win far more games with their fielding and hitting. With out defensive AND offence support, No pitcher can win. Dice-K would have won 20 games with consistant support. The Red Sox have been to quick to give up valuable players to obtain big names in the past. You were the exception. Keep the players we have and let Johan “help” some one else!!!
Mr. Schilling,
On the Boston.com message board, there is a debate going on about whether (players such as Papelbon and yourself) talking about how great it would be to pick up Santana could hurt the morale on the team. This guy is saying that people such as Coco and Ellsbury would think you would rather see this guy with the team instead of them. Would you care to straighten out this guy for me?
Thanks
lol
2008 Starting Rotation:
1) Josh Beckett (Righty)
2) Johan Santana (Lefty)
3) Curt Schilling (Righty)
4) John Lester (Lefty)
5) Daisuke Matzusaka (Righty)
Just looking at this list make me drool…
Anyways… The Twins are just bluffing right now. They know they won’t be able to keep Santana (even though they traded away another pitcher). The fact of the matter is that the Red Sox and Yankees are the ones in control; not the Twins. They Yankees did good on setting up a deadline for the Twins to make a decision (it also benefits us), because they know no good will come of a Betting Race with the Red Sox. Ultimately, we should just keep our offer as it was… without involving Jacoby. Jacoby is a goldmine, he belongs to us under contract for $350,000 per year!!! That is pocket change for Theo, considering the fact that we are talking about a .310+ AVG and 35+ SB, 190+ hits and with an OBP of over .500 every single season. If not the Twins will have to take a big gamble and play with Santana ’till the Trade Deadline, and decide then. But if they do that, the offers may not be as good as the ones presented during the Winter Meetings.
I doubt that the Twins will take that gamble. They would most rather start 2008 with their new team, in order to start developing the prospects they receive for the Santana deal, during spring training.
Fingers crossed that Theo works out a trade for Johan that doesn’t involve Jacoby Ellsbury.
Every once in a while, a special player comes along that combines talent, passion, potential and a child-like love of the game…a player who is so fun to watch that you almost don’t even care if they win…(okay, let’s not get carried away)…
Jacoby Ellsbury IS that player.
From the time he beat out that routine grounder to short for a basehit…and scored from 1B on a single!…I knew I wanted to watch this kid for a long, long time!
Please, Theo, et al, DON’T TRADE JACOBY!
I’d hate to see any of our “top three” prospects (i.e., Ellsbury, Lester or Buchholz) leave, but for Santana losing one might be worth it.
As much as I’d love to get Johan Santana, I do think the price is a bit steep. I’ve got to believe that with the rest of the Sox pitching staff, someone like Dan Haren would give you 75% of Santana at 50% of the cost. I’d be happy to win the division by 5 games instead of 8.
You’ve seen Haren a lot closer up than I have, Curt. What’s your opinion of his talent level compared to Santana’s?
I would hate to see Ellsbury go. I met him in ST during a AA/AAA game with the Orioles minor leaguers in Sarasota. Nice kid, polite and if he’s included in a deal, the Twins have got a hell of OF. I would also hate to lose Lester, but when you want to get a good veteran pitcher (Santana). you have to give up a good young pitcher (Lester). For a previous example, go back 10 years when the Sox gave up a kid named Carl Pavano for some guy named Pedro.
Maybe Theo made a few clunkers for trades (Shea Hillenbrand for B H Kim and Arroyo for WMP) but if he can land Santana for Lester and maybe Lowrie, it would make us odds-on favorites to go back to the Fall Classic in ‘08.
Who knows if the rumors are true but it looks like it may be Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson for Santana. Not too bad. That being said, Santana has never pitched in the media fishbowl that is Boston. Don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Boston… but I hope there are those on the team ready to help Santana ease into the mayhem. ; ) Pitching in Minnesota just doesn’t compare. So, I will cautiously withhold being too excited for now, all the while hoping that Santana can flourish under the intensity of Red Sox Nation.
Hey. I watched the game all the way from Korea and I screamed at Pap’s last pitch for the strikeout.
It was great. Good season!
Anyway… i have to agree with anyone who said that Theo knows what he’s doing. One World Series is still questionable but two in four years? Gotta figure he’s doing something right. Plus the fact, he’s basically brought back the entire championship team with the exception of the bench. The thing is that the Sox don’t have to get him now. Santana’s a free agent next season and Boston could just sign him then. I love Ellsbury but Coco is just as able if not better in center field. Plus, playing one month and even in postseason isn’t always going to translate to a full season. Coco’s a proven player whereas Jacoby is still basically a rookie. Lester is ready to be a starter and Buchholz has an incredible amount of potential as we saw from the no hitter. These two could be the anchors of the Boston rotation in the future. And the idea that Beckett wouldn’t welcome a competitor within his own team is ridiculous. Beckett-Santana could be 1A-1B with Dice K as a SOLID #2. And I don’t even think Dice-K would be satisfied being the number 2. We will WANT to be the number one starter. That gives THREE great pitchers constantly pushing each other and just getting better. Johan is a future hall of fame pitcher if he keeps pitching like the way he has. Beckett is the next Schilling in postseason as we have seen and Dice-K will get better, I don’t doubt that. Just because you have a good prospect, that cannot make up for a poor rotation (not that Boston has a poor rotation). But if you have 3 guys who are getting into their primes and are going to be on your team and anchor the rotation for the next 4-5 years, it’s gonna take you a LONG way. Pitching is everything. But Minnesota does ask for too much. Giving two of either Lester, Buchholz and Ellsbury is over the top.
Boston doesn’t absolutely need to sign Johan. Their main concern should be getting bench players and resigning Kielty.
THE SOX CAN WAIT. Any other team would have taken Boston or even New York’s offer by now but I think that Minnesota will eventually keep him for a year.
Good job again this season Sox, we’re looking foward to next season!
Calvinballer,
“I agree with the Sports Guy when he said if you can give up a few players who are not even in your top 15 from last year and get back Johan, it’s a no brainer.”
Thing is, you’re only getting one year of Johan. You’re giving up 20+ controlled years in minor / major league talent for… one year. After that, you’re paying full market price, which you could also pay by waiting a year for him to hit the market and not giving up your prospects.
I agree that’s a “no brainer” move, but not exactly in the same way I expect you mean it ;p
Beantwn,
“I just sit and imagine what some of the young pitchers like Lester and Buchholz will be able to learn from someone like Santana. I mean he has a DEVASTATING change and it would be sweet to see other members of the staff able to tie it into their repitoires.”
Buchholz is already considered to have one of the best changes in the major leagues, right now. If he keeps his head on straight and stays healthy (and I ilke any young pitcher’s chances much better in the system the Sox have developed), his ceiling is probably close to that of Johan’s. The brass knows this, which is why he’s the one “true untouchable” in all these trade talks. He’ll be innings-limited for the next season, but we can all reasonably expect a hell of a treat watching this kid throw for the next several years.
26goinon27,
Agree. I have to admit, though, that I really like Hank. He’ll have a learning curve to go through, obviously, but he seems like a good fit as an executive for that franchise. Much moreso than his old man. If they leave Cashman to do his thing, I think you guys have nothing to worry about in the long run.
Hoyeman,
“You should always try to win right here and right now because it sometimes isn’t that easy.”
Incorrect. Gene Michael didn’t try to “win right now”, which was hoe he pulled the NY franchise up out of the doldrums and initiated the Tankee Dynasty of the late 90’s. The entire lesson we should all have learned was that they Yankees succeeded with talent that came up through their system, with solid veterans surrounding them and teaching them the right way to be a Yankee. That philosophy won 4 Series titles for NY, but got tossed out the window by Big Stein after ‘losing’ in 01. They brought in a slew of high-priced FA’s over the next several; years, and it got them where?
I can name two other guys who tried to “win right now”: Omar Minaya and J.P. Riccardi. Synonymous with success? No.
“72 yankees1970
Your sorry team as well as your fans wish that you get Santana in your team. That will never happen. You can;t comapre stabliushed players like the yankees have to some third level players like the ones that you want to give to the Twins. By the way, ever since you were in Arizona I have never liked your attitude for the game. You wish you would had pitched for the Yankees sometime in your career.
The Red Sox will not win the division in 2008, 2009 or 2010. You got lucky this year since the yanks had some many players hurt. 2008 will be a different story”
This is just too much fun to pass up.
“in your team?” Did you intend to write “on your team?”
can;t must be can’t
stabliushed = established
I don’t think Schilling cares what you think about his attitude for the game. LOL
Can you really see the future? What are the upcoming Powerball numbers?
“The Yanks had some many players hurt.” Shouldn’t that be “so many?” Since when have MFY fans allowed for that reason for any other team. Shut up and accept that part of the game is playing through injuries.
Quote and unamed NL GM:
“If the Red Sox get Santana, that will make the best team in the friggin’ universe”
I can’t wait, and my this is not your Daddy’s Red Sox team. I LOVE IT!
Curt: Nothing “funner” on a cold winter morning than perusing your blog and the comments. IMHO the only reason Jacoby’s name came up is to force the Yanks to cough up more than they should. We’ll see.
Ok, I have to correct myself Curt. I thought Santana would be locked down by now. I’m now restating my prediction from “playing catch up” and saying Santana will be in Beantown before the Pats kick of against the Steelers.
And on the trade rumors, I saw Lester pitch his last game in ‘06 in Fenway against the yanks before leaving the team with lymphoma and I saw him in his first game back in ‘07. he is an extremely courageous kid and it should never be forgotten what he did on the mound in game 4 to lock down your second ring. Good luck to everything in his career’s future whether it be in a Sox jersey or not.
Thanks for the update Curt. Always an enjoyable blog.
Agree with the general sentiment above: do not want to see Ellsbury go.
Would like Santana. Do not take this personal, but you and Wake may need a rest at some point in the year. It is a long year. A rotation with Santana not only is “the best in the friggin’ universe” as is being quoted all over ESPN, it is–with Beckett, Dice-K, You, and Wakes a stable rotation. If something happens, you do not have to plug in a set-up man or closer to start. Nothing you do not know already, of course.
Lester struggled a bit here and there this year as to be expected. I only expect him to get better. Choosing between either Lester or Ellsbury is not a choice I would want to make, but I am, fortunately for the team, not Theo, Tito, et al. Heck, I would hate to see Coco go. I suppose it is good that the team is in such a position.
Finally, unfortunately, it will be a “good thing” for the MFYs not to have Santana.
–J.D.
Hey Curt,anyone ever tell you that you’re the 21st century Living Legend!?I’d love to see Johan in the Bean,as you state he’s the best lefty in the game BUT the staff we have know is WS tested and PROVEN.To see Ellsbury shipped out would be one of the most painful moves I’ve had to endure in my 30yrs of Boston fandome.Having this rotation I would look to Jacoby who may be the best 5 point player in the league(I know he’s young)to be the offensive catalyst of this team,batting lead-off w/scrappy Dusty and the big cat behind him would be the best 123 I could ever imagine.Honestly I believe we’re fine right know and we don’t need to add anyone except a reliever or two.Tell the F/O to stop running scared and act like you just won a WS!DON”T TRADE JACOBY!!!!!
Santana would be an amazing pick up, but losing Ellsbury may not be worth it. Losing your lead-off hitter for at least the next ten years is a steep price. Ellsbury would be the igniter for this team. Look at what Jimmy Rollins did for the Phillies last year. Ellsbury and Pedroia at the top of the lineup is exciting, and losing Ellsbury has me concerned.
Oliver505, excellent post. I want to comment on a couple points:
“1) In the past four years he has put up over 900 innings; a testiment to his durabiity that I’m sure Curt can attest to [...].”
True - but that’s also wear and tear on an elbow that, correct me if I’m wrong, has already had one surgical proceedure. That workload, combined with past medical history and his stats this season make people a little queasy. If you’re going to sign a player, particularly a pitcher, to a $125 - $150mm deal, you want to be 110% sure his durability is sustainable. Speaking for myself, I’ll rest a lot easier on this point once I know the Sox have signed off on Santana’s medicals. Until then, I worry. I’m a Sox fan, I was bred to worry ;p
“2) During that span….playing 1/2 of his games roughly in the Metrodome which is hardly pitcher friendly, Santana has had three years with ERA’s under 3 and his “off” year, 3.33.
[...]
4) Prior to last season, the most losses Santana has taken in the previous four years was SEVEN [...]“
This is part of the reason for the subdued response, and it feeds into my rebuttal to point 1; specifically, the fact that he had his highest ERA, allowed the most homers and lost the most games of his career in ‘07 does not lend itself to the belief that everything is “hunky dorey”. If he’d come out and had a typically Santana-esque year and threw up a 2.90 with 16 HR’s allowed, you wouldn’t see the trepidation. But he didn’t, and it was a bad time for him to have an “off year”. Not as calamitous as Andruw Jones, though
“If you get him, enjoy him for a good 7-8 years because believe me, he will be at the top of that already very impressive rotation.”
That’s probably unlikely. The much greater likelihood is that we can expect to see 3-4 great years out of him, followed by 3-4 more years of declining performance. His odds are better, given that he’s not a “power pitcher” who will need to redesign his game as he ages and his velo drops, but statistics still would indicate that his chance of pitchnig at a truly elite level will fall off sometime after his 33rd birthday. Assuming, of course, that he remains healthy for the length of the contract.
And as I mentioned earlier, there are the PR / Ego / Payroll issues to contend with. How do you introduce Santana as your new #1 when you consider what Beckett did for us this season? But given Santana’s resume, how do you not? What does that do to Beckett’s mindset? ow do you handle his contract extension, and how expensive does he immediately become? If you bring in this elite pitcher, don’t you have to bump an ineffective Wakefield out to make a slot for Buchholz, who has vastly superior skills? How does that affect Wake, being sent to the ‘pen, after being a “heart and soul” guy in Boston for so long, and assuming he was being re-upped to start next season? the juggling act gets easier once our kind host retires after ‘08, but in the meantime, you have a mess of issues related to this trade - and you get to pay $125mm minimum for the privilege of figuring it out.
Nobody here is debating that Santana has proven himself to be the best pitcher in the majors. Nobody is debating that he’s been the picture of the “perfect professional ballplayer” in his brilliant career. But even for Johan Santana, there is a price that is “too much” to pay - that’s the line we’re debating here.
I could part with Lester, Masterson, Crisp, and Lowrie without hesitation. But please, not Ellsbury. He is by far the most exciting rookie coming up in the Sox organization since Nomar. I am hopeful that we will have the pleasure to watch him everyday next year in centerfield.
That said, I say let’s go get Santana. I would love to see a rotation of Santana, Beckett, Schilling, Matsusaka, and Wakefied, with Buchholz ready to step in as well. That would be fun to watch.
Curt,
I would like to thank you for you years of service to New England, The Red Sox and the fight against ALS.
I think if every player in all sports reached out to their fans like you do at 38pitches.com most players would be as respected as you are.
As for Johan, I say WOW, You, Josh and Johan 1,2, and 3…really don’t matter what order you pitch, it would be a devestating 123 punch. Then add Dice-K and you have hell for opponents.
Keep up the great work and I can’t wait for Spring training. Rest up and be ready (also drop a little weight and I bet you gain a few miles per hour back on that fastball).
AJ Mahoney
Santana would be awesome in the rotation we would be crazy not to get him but losing Ellsbury…not to sure if thats a great idea he did give us that spark to come back vs. cleveland.Crisp Lester and and onother prospect what the heck why not.Imagine Beckett,Santana,Dice K You(schill)and Wake theres at least 80 wins right there oh my !!!!
curt,
we already have a great pitching staff (you’re welcome), i don’t think its truly worth the sacrifice of loosing such an obviously historical player like jacoby. now, i know i probably don’t know everything, if i did i’d have theo’s job. but everyone in bosox nation is really excited to see someone like jacoby, who has such talent and really seems to “fit in” with the rest of the team, get to actually play in more games than none.
I’m just saying, yeah, having santana would be kinda cool. but molding jacoby into the type of guy who not only is going to be one of the best in the league but also the type of guy who’ll take a paycheck cut to stay with appreciative/demanding fans would just be awesome. anyways, great blog!
Ok…..here is my bid on the whole trade thing. we have amazing pitching already. lester and clay makes it that much better. in my eyes last year, the weakest link wasnt coco, wasn’t drew……it was lugo. he didnt play well last year. only productive thing he did was get a few bunts and stolen bases. GO AFTER A GOOD SHORTSTOP!!!! PLEASE!!!!
My 2 Cents
Curt first time visitor,just want to say its pretty cool of you to actually extend yourself in this way and share insights with us and listen to ours,Right On!.
For what it’s worth I think the potential of Jacoby Ellsbury is unlimited,his speed alone is something The Red Sox haven’t seen in….Never!
He is a prototype lead off hitter that I feel would have a Great OBP.
I know Santana is a Stud, but I just Love this Ellsbury Cat.
Just in case Theo checks in here every now & then, I got one thing for him.
Say it ain’t So Theo, Please Don’t Trade Ellsbury.
Nice Work on ReSigning our Man Curt & Mike Lowell…Sweet
Keep up the Good Work.
I disagree with signing Santana… Yeah, he’s ferocious, and a great competitor… But, will he win more games that Buchholz AND Lester this year? I don’t think so… Plus, a position player pays dividends EVERY DAY… We all know the pain of giving up on Hanley Ramirez, even though this was a trade you make 10 out of 10 times… But, this one is not as tempting, in my opinion, because we have Lester, Ellsbury, and Bucholz already in the fold… I say STAND PAT, let Lester and Buchholz pitch alongside #38 for a couple more years… And let Ellsbury and Pedroia anchor the top of our lineup for the next 10 years…
Another thing to consider, we need to re-negotiate Pap’s contract… Not later, NOW… Use that money that Santana would demand to lock up Papelbon for a long term deal…
the deal, if done at all, shold be Lester, Crisp, Justin Masterson, and, throw in Craig Hansen… This gives Minnesota an option when Nathan becomes too pricey.. Hansen has no value to us down the road as long as Papelbon is here… Minnesota would be stupid to pass on that…
Lastly, I’d like to see the Yanks sign Santana… He’d have so much pressure on him, with the decline of Mussina and Pettitte, that he’d probably have an off year… Even if he wins 20, it’s doubtful that Mussina and Pettitte follow suit… Let the Yanks have him…
KEEP ELLSBURY!!!!!!!!!!!
People, please stop listening to WEEI. Turn on ESPN radio or read a newspaper from somewhere other than here(that said, I think Sean McAdam is usually right on).
Look at Johan Santana’s stats, they are ridiculous and he’s 29. Curt came here at 37 and we won 2 World Series. With all due respect, Santana is a lefty Pedro and a far superior pitcher to Schilling, past and present. Teaming up Beckett and Santana is just not fair for the rest of baseball.
Let’s break it down:
First off: Would you do the Beckett for Ramirez trade again? If your answer is no, stop reading , because you cannot be helped. Of course you would.
Second off: to emphasize the first point, listen closely cause Josh Beckett is really good but Johan Santana is THE BEST pitcher in baseball and if you can get him for prospects and yes, they are prospects(Ellsbury has under 200 major league at-bats) you do it. There have been many more “prospects” who have not panned out than have and Johan Santana is as close to a sure thing as you can get.
The potential is clearly there for Ellsbury but some of the people who have said things like he is the best “5 point player”(which I assume is 5 tool) is just ludicrous. He is a 3 tool player, and certainly not the best. Some other genius wrote that no pitcher is worth Ellsbury. Come on guys and gals. Let’s be reasonable, please. I can handle people sucking up to Curt but the idea that Ellsbury is somehow not worth Johan Santana is absolutely insane.
That said, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Remember the “why trade for Kevin Garnett when you have the next Kevin Garnett” people. Anyone who thought that, let me reply to that in your language: “How’s that workin’ on for ya?”
Do not let your passion and naivete cloud your judgement.
If you’re still not convinced, I’ll make it simple, Healthy Santana = World Series. Done and done. Go Sox.
Jacoby Ellsbury is too exciting to give up. You can never have enough leadoff men, either.
Last thing, then I’ll go. Who was the best leadoff man we’ve ever had and how does he compare with Ellsbury at this stage of his career?
Mr. Schilling
I will try to keep to the facts and only the facts.
Your friends at WEEI (The D of D) have spent last week “speculating” on why Sean Taylor died.
They “speculated” that he must have done something to cause his death.
“The shot to the groin could not have been an accident”
“It must have been a message”
“why didn’t he live in the DC area”
They admonished a caller who stated they were getting close to being racist in their comments,
and they asked how he could “play the race card”.
They were only “speculating”
A short time later they let a caller spend 10 to 15 minutes spew what could at best be called race based hatred and finally had to bleep him when he used some term to refer to a black man.
When a caller stated that both black and white athletes got in trouble – Callahan stated “ya ya but the Sports Illustrated article stated more blacks got in trouble” – that’s not playing the race card is it?
The two guys that The Boston Phoenix dubbed the Duo of Dung – see link - have made other statements, comments or jokes–
http://72.166.46.24/boston/news_features/editorial/documents/03218005.asp
That some might consider inappropriate – you tell me!
1. A guy could go broke getting her drunk so you can take advantage of her – RAPE?
2. After reading a story about a women who molested 11 and 12 year old boys – was she at least HOT - while play suggestive sounds from some old TV show or movie.
3. I remember the old days (Halloween reference) when I could put on my sheet and make believe I was in the Klan.
And I only listen for about 15 minutes a day – can you imagine what I have missed.
These are your guys – your words not mine – are they funny?
Can anyone tell we what are they and why do you, Tom Brady, Doc Rivers, the Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots, Boston College, Channels 4, 5, 25, NESN, Comcast Sports, The Globe and the Herald say nothing!
Could it be that every single one of you is making money from your relationship with WEEI and/or ENTERCOM?
Looking forward to your comments
personally..i think we got a great bullpen and great starting pitchers (including you, Curt, of course) and i really really dont think that giving up jacoby is worth santana…we need a good, yound center fielder and crisp doesnt always put it out there for us as a batter either..jacoby is a big package himself and losing him would be stupid….
Relay to Theo: Santana is not worth the loss of an amazing center fielder like jacoby
IN THEO WE TRUST!
I’m extremely excited about the possibility of getting Santana from Minnesota. From what I have heard up until this point is that we are looking to trade Lester or Ellsbury. I understand Ellsbury would be a tough player to let go, but keep in mind in winter 2005, we traded away Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez as well as a few other players for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell. The point I’m trying to make here is that the players we traded away are no different than the players being mentioned in this trade except for the fact that Ellsbury and Lester have been in the league for a year or so.
All I’m trying to say is that if we have the opportunity to get a two time Cy Young award winner for a few players who haven’t reached their potential yet, then when should do everything we can to make that happen.
I see the liberal speech fascists have invaded this discussion.
Let’s try to stay on topic, k?