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| One players take on the Mitchell Report, Canseco, Clemens, records, looking back or going forward…. | 12.19.07 at 3:01 pm ET |
Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Andy Petite, Todd Pratt, Gary Bennett, Paul Byrd, Dave Justice, Fernando Vina, Alex Cabrera, Brian Roberts, Lenny Dykstra, and many more. I know them, or have been friends with them, or know them through competing against them, and many more names on that list.
If you plan on writing some idiotic off the cuff rant slanted one way or another feel free to close the page now, it will be deleted. The opinion I am offering is mine and mine alone. Regardless of whether you view it as right or wrong it’s my opinion from what some might call an insiders perspective.
First off on the Senator himself. I’ll take the word of the many reputable people I have heard talk about Senator Mitchell and after reading the report I don’t think I’m wrong. People wanting to point to his apparent ‘extreme bias’ based on his position as a senior member of the Red Sox organization are on a wild goose chase. I would argue that most of the people calling his character into question are doing so because they can’t relate to someone possessing integrity and an unbiased opinion in his position. Meaning those people are saying “If it were me I’d be unfair and taint the report to read in favor of the Red Sox”. (The conspiracy theorists out there are having a field day with Senator Mitchells relationship with Boston and his integrity, I don’t have any issues with either and I think if you look at his reputation and record you can safely say this man has made a living out of doing some pretty damn good stuff.)
I disagree. I think that given the people that talked, the people that had to talk to make this stuff come to light, had far more bearing on the names and groups of players in question than the man leading the investigation. I would also argue that of all the people put ‘out there’ in this report his take on the Red Sox dealings with Brendon and Eric Gagne will have people up in arms much more than many other parts of this report.
Agree or disagree, if you start your assessment of this report with a biased opinion of Senator Mitchell and you question his integrity then I’d argue you’re not seeing this for what it is. But that’s your right.
As for the names on the list, and Lord knows there’s no shortage of those, I have feelings very strongly in some cases due to personal history, and opinions in many others. I’ve played, roomed and lived with some of these guys, and competed and gotten to know others.
To Andy Pettite, Brian Roberts, Gary Bennett, thank you. All three of these guys I know, Andy not very much, but the other two I know very well. I played a few years with Gary, worked out at API and competed with Brian. Gary Bennett is a guy who I always respected because I never figured him as a guy that would be able to play as long as he has. He was always a hard worker and a nice guy and I always enjoyed throwing to him because he cared about his game calling skills. He’s made a nice career for himself and my hope is that it was more through his hard work and effort than through cheating, either way he’s a friend of mine and always will be. Brian Roberts worked as hard as anyone I’ve ever been around. Not to mention he’s about as kind and giving as anyone you’ll ever meet. I know how regretful he is and I know that this mistake is not indicative of his choice making in life. He screwed up, knows he screwed up and admitted it. I’ve always had huge amounts of respect for Andy Pettite, as a competitor and as a person. Someone who’s made his beliefs as a Christian very public and always been the big game pitcher as well. He says he did this one time to recover from an injury, I believe him.
What does all of this mean? As it pertains to this report it means absolutely nothing. These three guys were man enough to admit they were caught, made a huge mistake, and asked for forgiveness. There will be many who say they only admitted what they did because they were caught, which is probably true in every case, but the fact of the matter is that when you look at how many names are now out there, very few have chosen to own up to the mistake and take responsibility. To dissect the manner of their apologies, or try and discern intent is irrelevant to me. I know all three guys are good people. The world is full of good to great people that have made mistakes of this magnitude or worse. I’ll argue that this mistake in many cases doesn’t define the people I know, but merely points to another fact of our lives that people continually dismiss.
We’re human, we make mistakes, some bigger than you, some smaller, but at the end of the day it’s what makes us human. These guys made mistakes and I do mean mistakes. They didn’t accidentally do this, this was a conscious decision with far reaching implications and they should be held accountable. Problem is the fans version of accountable is completely dependent on their opinion of the player in question. If you are a fan then all is forgiven, or there is much less vitriol than you might have for other names mentioned.
Bottom line is you will act and react based on your opinions of these players. Opinions you’ve formed based on media coverage given by the very same people now reporting this story. Short of actually meeting any of these players the only things you know about them are what’s been reported to you via television or newspapers over their careers. You can’t know in any depth how good or bad any of these guys are. You know their home to first times, their OBP, WHIP, and you know some of them are ‘gamers’, but as people you can’t know what they are really like can you? Does that really matter though? That’s for you to decide and I am sure their inclusion in this report has significant impact on your opinions of them as players and as people, how can it not.
Jose Canseco? Not sure where to start. I would offer that there is a small amount of personal history on my end. Back in the early 90’s Jose and I were represented by a firm called Beverly Hills Sports Council. Jose ran a celebrity softball game in Miami after the huge hurricane and I had a chance to spend some time the evening before the event with him. My impressions were that he was an extremely shy guy, incredibly nice and caring. He was very much into the Miami community and giving back as well.
About 15 years later I am not sure those things don’t still ring true, but what’s happened over the past few years has made me think other things about him. I heard him on WEEI this past weekend and he was lying. He was stating that I lied in front of Congress and that I was reprimanded afterwards. Neither of those is true. I have stated many times before, and since, that I was called before Congress, subpoenaed actually, based on a comment I made to a sports illustrated writer a few years before about my thoughts on the % of players using PED’s in MLB. Based on 2-3 quotes I made, Congress felt compelled to call me to the meeting to offer an ‘anti-steroids’ opinion.
Please remember this. At a Congressional hearing you are sworn in and any and everything you say can be used for future actions against you or someone else unless you are granted immunity, even with immunity if you lie you lose that right. Everything I had as an opinion to that point, and for the most part now, was thought, opinion, conjecture. Having to this day never seen anyone inject steroids or HGH, I was in no position to speculate, nor would I. To even mention a name as someone I ‘thought’ was using, or do anything of that sort would amount to defamation of character of people I was guessing may have used. I couldn’t do that, others can and have but I could not.
As far a Jose goes, my opinion on what he’s done is, I guess, rather convoluted. On one hand Jose lied about every aspect of his professional career as a player. His entire career, all of it, is a sham. He never belonged in the big leagues and anything he ever did in the major leagues is a hoax. He made it clear that he would not have been the player he was had he not cheated. His statistics should be erased, his MVP given to the runner up and he should go down as the guy who broke the silence on a horrible period of the game, period. He was never in his life a major league player.
The problem I have, and the opinion I have, is based on the fact that he lied his entire career, every single day of it. He cheated his entire career, and lied about it. He spent his entire career on the record claiming he didn’t use PEDs, yet only when his life was in shambles and only when it served Jose Canseco the most, did he ‘come clean’. Only then did he become this bastion of truth and honesty. Is that not the scam of scams? He made his hundred million or so, and when he was no longer good enough to compete up here, only when cheating stopped being enough to keep him competitive, only then did he scream ‘blackballed” and vow to get his revenge. Only then did he tell the truth, or his version of the truth.
Which in the end gets us here. Say what you want about Jose, and there are things I disagree with and think he’s wrong about, but I have yet to find someone he’s named who’s NOT been guilty or tried to clear their name. The view I have on that is maybe a bit too simplistic but I look at it like this. If Jose had named me in his book, it would have taken about 20 minutes for me to issue a press release vehemently denying the allegations, which would have been as closely followed as possible by as large a legal action as I could have possibly taken to sue for slander, libel, defamation of character and anything else I’d have been able to legally do. It’s either that, or I’m guilty. There is no gray area here, you either did, or you didn’t and Jose, up through today, hasn’t called out anyone that’s sued his ass off for false representation, slander, libel or whatever you would do if someone said something like this about you, that you didn’t do.
So regardless of what you might think about him he has broken the flood gates on a topic that went unspoken on for far too long. The amount of damage done to the sport will be far reaching and I don’t know that we’ll ever truly know how bad it is until people a few generations from now are looking back on this era.
This past week he made a comment publicly that he was ’shocked’ that Alex Rodriguez was not mentioned in the Mitchell report? Based on what he has said and done he was clearly saying to me that he has personal knowledge of Alex as it relates to PED’s? How can he do that? Are we at a place where people are ok with names being thrown out this callously is ok? I hope like hell Alex stops anyone from mentioning his name as it relates to this and legally shuts up Jose from mentioning his name anymore as it relates to steroids or PEDs.
Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds. I know both of these men. Roger had a profound effect on my career from a very early point. His ‘undressing’ of me and lecture were a major turning point. I’ve always respected his career accomplishments and regarded him as the greatest pitcher to ever play the game. Now I, like every other Yankee, Clemens fan am faced with a dilemma. The two men that fingered multiple players, from my understanding, both testified with immunity, but only if they told the truth. So these guys had every reason in the world to NOT lie. That doesn’t mean they didn’t, but there is an immense amount of incentive for them to NOT lie when they gave their depositions because lying would have seen them open to legal actions beyond what they are already facing. So the question to me then becomes this. It’s no mystery that Roger and Andy are as close as any two teammates I know of. Andy makes no bones about Rogers influence in his career. Their personal trainer, the trainer Roger took to Toronto, then to NY, has admitted to administering PED’s to both men. Andy has admitted he did, and that it was a mistake and he never did it again. Roger has denied every allegation brought to the table. So as a fan my thought is that Roger will find a way in short order to organize a legal team to guarantee a retraction of the allegations made, a public apology is made, and his name is completely cleared. If he doesn’t do that then there aren’t many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and 3 Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end. From that point on the numbers were attained through using PED’s. Just like I stated about Jose, if that is the case with Roger, the 4 Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations.
I met Barry Bonds in the early 90s. Like Jose, Barry was represented by Beverly Hills Sports Council and I was invited to a dinner along with Gary Sheffield to celebrate Barry’s 2nd or 3rd MVP. By the way that was just about the only time I’ve ever interacted with Sheff and he was the kindest, most polite guy I had ever met. Incredibly well spoken and incredibly respectful and kind. That was where I first met Barry. We had a chance to talk a bit but I listened much more than I spoke (my how times have changed). I obviously respected the player, who wouldn’t? That next year we were playing against SF and he hit a home run in the bottom of the 9th inning off of me to tie a game (1993), and stood at home plate for about 3 days. I made a few comments and he did his thing. I stopped being much of a fan at that point. Over the past 13 or so years the rest of my opinion of Barry has been formed, fairly or unfairly, by playing with and talking to former teammates, clubhouse guys and other people in the game, as well as competing against him. Barry is pretty much the guy that’s been represented by the media as a whole in my opinion. Take that for whatever it’s worth. The big difference in where we are now, and I think in the court of public opinion, is that many things have happened in the past few years that have presented opportunities for him to ‘clear his name’ (no pun intended), and he hasn’t.
Someone wrote a book about Barry which outlined a ton of things that Barry supposedly did, and nothing happened. Barry instituted legal action to bar the publishers of the book from profiting from sales. Nothing about the allegations in the book, nothing, just tried to stop them from making money. Barry testified, with immunity, in front of a Grand Jury. In the opinion of that Grand Jury Barry lied under oath no less than 4 times and is now facing indictment. Barry’s personal trainer has gone to jail for failure to testify in the Grand Jury proceedings. My question is, if you did nothing wrong, and know of no crime being committed, why would you have to go to jail? What information would you possess that would land you in jail for failure to disclose? If you are innocent, and no one is hiding anything, why is anyone going to jail? More importantly to me, how good of a friend would I be if I allowed someone I considered to be my friend to go to jail for me? What does that say about me? What does that say about my guilt/innocence? If I haven’t committed a crime why would anyone I am friends with have to go to jail for failure to answer questions about me or my activities?
It may not be that simple, or I might just be naive and stupid. But if I am being called in front of a grand jury to give testimony, and I am given total immunity from prosecution as long as I tell the truth, why would anything beyond my testimony be in discussion after I testified? If lying meant jail time and losing my life, and family, is there anything short of the safety and health of my family that would be worth that price? For me I’d have to say no.
This could all be crap in the end, Barry could be totally innocent of all charges of perjury and his relationship to Greg Anderson, Victor Conte and Balco, and all the evidence found against him could be false.
Whatever happens now though, can you separate what Barry is accused of from what Roger is accused of? If they are both found not guilty cool, if not then they are one in the same no?
If neither of those things happen, and both of these men end up being caught, what does that say about this game, us as athletes and the future of the sport and our place in it? The greatest pitcher and greatest hitter of all time are currently both being implicated, one is being prosecuted, for events surrounding and involving the use of performance enhancing drugs. That sucks.
Your opinions will have all personal bias, they have to, it’s what humans do. Fans in NY will continue to rant and scream about the fact that there are multiple Yankees in this report given by a member of the Red Sox organization. There are Bonds fans railing on Roger now, he needs to be vilified the same way Barry has been.
I don’t know the answers to any of this beyond what I feel. The sport needs fixing. It’s become clear that testing has to involve an outside party at some point and that the MLBPA and MLB need to find common ground on testing that allows investigation for probable cause instead of only relying on positive tests.
Scream all you want about the testing program in MLB but there isn’t a test in existence that can identify the the presence of HGH with any amount of accuracy. My understanding of the NFL Program is that a player must test at 6 times the normal level of HGH in their system to be a positive. I don’t know the details, I just know testing is woefully inadequate in catching people that use it. The use of Steroids in the game is significantly lower now than it was. I believe that is a combination of a good thing and a bad thing. I think testing truly has reduced the amount of people that use, but I also think that Senator Mitchell nailed it when he said that there has been a significant shift from oil based to water based drugs in the past few years. Every expert I have heard speak on testing has talked about the immense difficulties in keeping up with the cheaters, who are in a constant race to find the new and better thing that takes months for testers to even discover, and even longer to create tests to reveal.
So there is my long winded opinion. It’s only mine, so don’t put words in anyone else’s mouth for me. This stuff is not fact, it’s what I think and feel, and I don’t speak for any other players either. I have no desire to talk to the media about this issue beyond this post. Bottom line for me is that your beliefs and perceptions are going to be shaped on your opinions of the players before this report was issued, and most people are not or do not choose to forgive or be flexible with players they don’t know or don’t like, but openly embrace ‘their guy’ for coming clean or worse yet “there is no way he is guilty’. No one named in Jose’s book that he claims has used has taken the effort or made the commitment to clear their names, and with the exception of Dave Justice, Roger Clemens, every person named in the Mitchell Report has either already been caught, or admitted to using since the report was issued. I am hoping that every person that was named and did use admits to it, admits it was a mistake (where applicable), and asks for forgiveness (if they want it) and moves on.
At the same time I pray that ANYONE in this report that is innocent, steps up and clears their names, now, today. No one has, and through today no one has done anything but issue a crafted statement in someone else’s words denying their guilt or association in any of this.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I don’t know enough about the issue to make a comment either way about who’s using, has used, who’s guilty or not. I wasn’t there when all this stuff went down, and neither was anyone else who is not connected to MLB. I’m just a fan.
Once again, Curt, you spoke from your own experiences and your own perspective in the unique position you are in. You would know more than any of us about what’s what. You stated your views with candor and knowledge, and I respect that as much as anything you do on the pitcher’s mound.
–Stef
(RedSox fan in Soonerland)
December 19th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
You want Baseball to go around re distributing MVP’s and Cy youngs. That would be the single biggest disaster in the history of the sport, listenign to people complaining about awards years ago. Who says the guy who came in 2nd didn’t take juice??? Why should we reward players who just plain didn’t get caught. Barry Bonds would take you deep long before he took steroids. If Clemens didn’t take anything, he would still be a first ballot hall of famer. We cannt play judge and jury on a case by case basis. Allow both players in the hall, and historians will always understand the situation surrounding the era. I think some fans think you just want to sneak in the HOF’s back door, based on your “charachter”. Charachter has nothing to do with the HOF in my book, I wish every idiot sportswriter had their every mistake in the papers.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Very enlightening, Curt. I agree with you pretty much across the board and I appreciate your opinions on this issue.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Curt
Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion.
// mdr
December 19th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Curt:
Where are the agents in all of this mess? Besides Attorney-Client privilege, how come more of the media isn’t rolling over on agents, who stood to benefit greatly from the steroid scandal, yet are exposed the least. I mean does anyone really believe that Dennis Gilbert not only had Jose’s pharmacist on speed dial, but gave that number to all of the prospects he represented in their farm system for instance? Nobody is talking about these guys, who by and large have taken shall we say a certain casual ethical approach to their body of work over the years?
David (www.davidlstern.com)
December 19th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
jeez curt,
you gotta keep these blogs shorter or i might get caught reading them while at work. good one though. and yeah, it was a little nice to see no (current) bosox’s names and a couple yanks’. but that’s just to spite them cause of the whole rival thing. in all honesty, i blame their paychecks. nothing will make a man put a needle in his but like a multi million dollar deal. anyways, good blog. but please, remember, short, short, short…now i have to go an try to tell my boss about your blog and i don’t think i can remember everything you said.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Boy, you sure do love to give your opinion. This could have been alot shorter. Thats 20 minutes I’ll never get back.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Curt-
easy to understand the conflict for the players involved.
From the reading of the Mitchell report, Game of Shadows and all the coverage in between, it’s pretty clear that MLB, the MLBPA and the community in general was pretty protective of PED use for the last couple of decades. Hell, there was a suggestion in the Mitchell report that some officials were pratically encouraging it. Given everyone’s economic incentives, its easy to understand why they were so protective.
Clemens and Bonds are officially footnotes. They won’t be playing baseball anymore. It will be interesting to see what the end result will be for the HOF and their legacies, but it’s the past.
I really hope the lesson learned here is that that culture has to change. I understand why the players are generally protective of the clubhouse and each other, but I hope they also understand that they’ve allowed themselves collectively to be tainted, and that there is much work to do to regain the trust of the public.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
As usual, you have written up another great one. Roger Clemens has been my idol for the past 20 years and I am truly disappointed to see his name in the report. I do agree that the McNamee guy had no reason to lie and risk lengthy prison time so I have no choice right now to believe that what he says about Roger is true especially given the fact that Andy has stepped up and admitted his guilt. I really hope he does come out and prove that he did not cheat.
Thanks for the entertainment Curt. Looking forward to a great 2008 season for you.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Curt, very well said. I think you represent how most people would look at these gentlemen and read their actions. Thank You for once again looking at things from the normal persons perspective. I look forward to reading your blog, keep up the great work. Also thank you for being a spokesperson for Senator Mccain, a true american like yourself.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Fantastic post. I agree with 100% of it. If the bloated heads and inflated late career numbers weren’t enough proof, the detailed reports about Clemens usage is the final proof. I don’t see anyway he can prove his innocence. Should be interesting to see what actions he does or doesn’t take.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Curt,
Thanks again for weighing in. I know you sometimes take a lot of heat for speaking your mind, but I can’t thank you enough for cutting through the BS and breaking it down to the bottom line.
I find you to be honest and forthright man, and I attribute it to your being a Christian. I myself am an agnostic, but religious differences aside, I see you as a guy trying to live your life morally and ethically, and when you speak I listen.
Sometimes the truth being spoken is more important than being diplomatic or politically correct, and it’s bound to piss people off.
It;s dirty job, but someone’s got to do it!
So keep speaking the truth. I really believe in a world as full of crap as this one people like you are truly dong God’s work. (If there is one…)
December 19th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Thanks for the post. It really is great to hear it from someone who does have an insiders perspective- I am in complete agreement with your statement:
“At the same time I pray that ANYONE in this report that is innocent, steps up and clears their names, now, today.”
Thanks again and Merry Christmas Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Funny, as a fan of baseball since I was 5 years old and started collecting baseball cards (36 years ago), I am disappointed by the juicers.
But, I’m even more disappointed by the front office people who either knowingly or with great suspicion acquired juicers through trade or free agency.
Yes, that means you Theo. We have the emails, and it isn’t pretty, kid. You can’t wag your finger at the juicers, then go out and get them (and keep your integrity).
Thanks for your insights, Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
As a Yankee fan (put away the pitchforks, please) and a new father, I struggle with how I’m going to introduce my son to the game. While we adults can see these players as fallible humans, it’s in a child’s nature to idolize them. To see Andy Pettite’s name was especially disturbing as he was one of my favorite players — not least because of his seeming off-the-field integrity. And while I believe him when he says he only used briefly to recover from an injury, he’s no longer the paragon of virtue I can point out to my son.
When it comes down to it, if my son asks if there are any true heroes out there, I’ll have to point to Curt. “He beat us son, but he beat us fair and square.”
December 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Congrats on a VERY thoughtful and fair evaluation of the current situation.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Curt
Great post! I wish more athletes spoke up too. I, for one, am a baseball fan & these guys mentioned have ruined the game for me. Doesnt mean I wont go to games or watch on the dish, but in the back of my mind, I will be wondering whether the athletes are clean & drug free.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
You make many good points, and your openness and honesty is admirable. However–and by all means correct me if I’m wrong–you seem to be approaching the Mitchell report from a stance of “guilty until proven innocent.” Alex Rodriguez’ case is a good example. Canseco brought a lot the discussion table and he should get credit for that, but you pointed out yourself that he has no problem lying when it suits him, and the more he talks, the less credibility he has. Why should Rodriguez be up in arms about an unsubstantiated remark made by a man with a history of lying? To me, his inaction doesn’t indicate guilt; it indicates that he doesn’t take Canseco seriously. And why should he?
Do I believe Barry Bonds used PEDs? Yes. Do I believe Roger Clemens used them as well? Probably. But we have a legal policy of “innocent until proven guilty” in this country, and thank goodness for it. I can’t justify an action as drastic as altering or erasing their career numbers unless their cheating can be proven by a money trail, a reliable test, or a series of testimonies under oath in a court of law. Otherwise, we are, in principle, sanctioning disciplinary action against ANY United States citizen based on accusations alone, and that makes me very, very uncomfortable. It goes beyond the Mitchell report, and beyond baseball. It’s an issue that affects all of us, regardless of our celebrity, wealth, or achievements. Innocent until proven guilty? Yes, please, with a bit of habeus corpus on the side, if you will.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Bless you, Curt,
You have very eloquently stated what any true fan of the game of baseball is feeling right now. What has happened is sad for the players, their families and all fans of the game. MLB and the MLBPA have been given an opportunity to try and bring the game back to the people. Here’s hoping they do the right thing.
In the mean time, thanks for giving us your opinion and being willing to take the heat which I’m sure some people will feel is their right to send your way. You are an honorable man, Curt Schilling, and I’m proud to have you a part of New England.
Merry Christmas!
Margaret
December 19th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Curt -
Thanks, as always, for the insights you bring to events both on and off the field.
Your analysis of Canseco and his motives were spot on, and it was good to hear that Sheff may not be the villain off the field that we Sox fans have made him out to be on it.
Congrats on 2007, and best wishes to you, your family, and the Boston Red Sox in 2008.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Wow. So, I have to say, that I agree with everything you say in here — most esp. with those like Pettite apologizing and moving on.
Funny thing is, I didn’t give much thought to the potential conflict of interest — maybe because I know if that was ME in that role, I’d probably scrutinize the organization I was involved with the most, just to be able to stand tall and face people head on when that accusation came up. It’s an ethics and character call I suppose.
You totally hit it on the head of how I personally feel about Conseco. He’s the guy that blew it wide open; but as far as baseball goes? In my opinion, Barry Bonds falls in that same category. While I don’t know him personally (clearly!), I perceive him as being a liar, a cheat and a thief. No integrity, no ethics. That’s not quite All American or Apple Pie now, is it?
My dad always told me when I was growing up - when you die, all you leave behind is your name. You’re only as good as your name. Some people just don’t care about something so simple, and so basic as having integrity.
Thanks for sharing with us.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Well said and thanks for sharing your thoughts. The whole thing is just sad and I hope that this will only make baseball better in the long run. I’m a fan of baseball since childhood and I hate to see the game sullied this way.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Wow, all I can say is well spoken (or well-blogged), Curt!
December 19th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I don’t know whether, in that situation, I would have responded to the Canseco book. I might have simply chalked it up to a failed human being trying to spread as much dirt has he could and felt that by suing, I was giving him an additional forum and ultimately driving up sales of his book as well as maintaining his position in the spotlight.
The Mitchell report is different. It’s not a “tell-all” gossipy expose with a celebrity author feel to it, it’s a scholarly research work with substantiated claims. I think you’re right, I think the people who are named yet innocent must respond or be presumed in the court of public opinion to be guilty.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Thanks for your insider perspective. This whole fiasco has been very disapointing. As a baseball fan I will be glad when the steroid era is over. Not just because of the records and what not, but because like it or not Major League Players are viewed as role models by children. I’ve already had to discuss PED’s with my 10 year old son attempt to explain why some of his “heroes” cheated….a tough conversation. The one good thing about this whole thing is that i was able to use this conversation as a good way to talk about the dangers of doing drugs in general. I also want to say I agree with you about Awards going to the runners up provided they did not cheat. In addition I hope that Hall of Fame voters will take into consideration the players who competed in the Steroid Era without the use of PED’s. There will be some “borderline” players who played honesty and fairly and were at a competitive disadvantage. Their stats should also be viewed in that perspective.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Thanks for this. In almost every case there will be a witness whose character will be challenged. Not that such people are incapable of lying, but in PEDs cases it will be pretty hard to find witnesses who aren’t kind of creepy. PEDs are distributed through shady underground networks, and if you’re going to find the truth, you have to listen to shady, underground network distributor types.
If people want to know where this is going, search the last ten years of articles about professional cycling. There it took several rounds of crackdowns for an athlete-culture that grew accustomed to PEDs to change its mind… things got worse before they got better. But things also got better before anyone began to notice the change. Baseball should have an even easier time cleaning up, since it’s all under a single, top-down administration, not spread across dozens of countries and organizations. We can hope.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Curt you are right. We are all human. Mistakes are made and the innocent should not be blamed and yes there are ones that have committed mistakes. It is understandable to make mistakes, especially in our day and age where society wants everything above and beyond. Everything has to be over the top and out of this world in order for it to be interesting. What happened to value and character? What happened to the simple life and no I’m not referring to the reality series the Nicole and Paris appeared on. This is why I am in love with baseball. It’s simple and old fashioned. One thing that does upset me in baseball is pressure that is place on the athletes to have to be the best. I believe that we all (including mangers, the franchise, the owners, and the fans) sometimes forget that you guys are human just like everyone else. One more thing I completely agree with you on the whole “extreme bias”.. people will believe what they want to and I think that this nation as a whole needs a little prayer, honesty, and forgiveness. People need to stop portraying athletics and celebrities as gods! You guys aren’t!!!
December 19th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Curt,
No BS, straight to the point. Your comments are a good read.
Clemens has never been a people person. When he was here in Boston, he was standoffish and many times just rude to folks. It don’t surprise me that he may have taken something. And it don’t surprise me that he will NOT take responsibilty for his actions. He never has……
December 19th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Hey Curt,
Thanks as ever for the blog, and for this post. It’s a great read when it’s about your changeup not working in the second inning, and all the more so when it’s about bigger events like this. (Not to suggest your changeup isn’t big.)
A couple of questions that I hope haven’t been asked and answered already:
1) What’s is the reaction to seeing competitors from other teams, and I guess I mean especially the Yankees, caught up in stuff like this? I’m sure you know that most Red Sox fans are pretty much swimming in schadenfreude right now, but you clearly have a different relation to Pettitte than we do. Likewise, a lot of fans don’t like Barry Bonds and think he’s a cheater, but we never had to pitch to the guy. Does seeing a guy’s name in the Mitchell report feel different if he took you deep a couple of times?
2) Frank Thomas, I think, did a brave thing by volunteering to talk to Mitchell about steroids because he thinks they’re such a blight on the game, and I’m not the only Sox fan who thought that you would have, too. Apologies if you’ve already talked about this, but: Why not?
Thanks!
December 19th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Mr.Schilling,
I grew up near Boston, love Roger Clemens, after reading all of the articles regarding him and PED’s, I find it amazing how easily we are pulled around by our ears from the media. I have never thought Roger would take steroids, maybe I don’t want to think he has, but I really do not understand how the testimony of a man(if you will) whom is facing VERY serious charges has a credibility. There has to be someone other than I that thinks maybe he felt pressure to come up with names. Also, Andy did state that he used HGH, never has Andy stated he got them from his trainer. I will stand by Roger no matter what, you guys have been cheating since the game was invented. I mean that generally. Oh, and I liked you until you went to the Sox. Also, I really enjoyed reading what you have to say on the matter. Thanks
December 19th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Should have read what I wrote before posting it too. Sorry for the poor grammer.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Nice to hear your opinion - a honest opinion. I still think that not everyone is being treated the same - Roger Clements hasn’t seen a thousandth of what Barry has been subjected to and if the report is accurate, Roger is no different to Barry ..
However, leaving individuals aside, the game needs major reforms - i think the commissioner needs to set a Truth commission, where all players can come in and clear their record. This will help uncover as much information on how players avoided steriod detection and make it dificult for abusers to stay ahead of the curve!
December 19th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
“To even mention a name as someone I ‘thought’ was using, or do anything of that sort would amount to defamation of character of people I was guessing may have used. I couldn’t do that, others can and have but I could not.”"
Isn’t that what you did regarding Barry Bonds? hmmmm
December 19th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
curt i agree with everthing you not only wrote on your blog but your interview on WEEI the other morning.Jose canseco is an steriod using whiney hypocritical SOB whose career ended because he used the juice to enhance his career.I have read parts of the mitchell report and if roger clemens is clean as he claims why doesnt he just hire an independent polygraph examiner?make the results public either way and if clemens truly has nothing to hide why isnt he suing anyone?i watched jim romes show on espn today and he had john smoltz on.I know you know john well and respect him and smoltz said if he was named in the report and knew he was innocent someone would be hearing from his lawyers.Its been an week now and roger had his mouthpieces issue his so called statement because we all know that roger isnt the sharpest knife in the draw.In the mitchell report two names i was surprised to not hear listed were nomar and gabe kapler.i say this because i remember the front page picture of nomar on SI without ans shirt on looking totally buffed and gabe always looked like an bodybuilding freak and those people are known juice users.having said that i am glad neither was in that report but if they had been I wouldnt have been surprised.merry christmas to you and your family.I already got my world series dvd and have watched only about an dozen times already.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
The last time I looked at the Constitution EVERYONE is presumed innocent until proved otherwise in a court of law. EVERYONE has the right to due process unless they waive that right. In the media however, SELECT ONES are portrayed as guilty until they come clean somehow to the media’s liking or…. in a court of law at which time the media may (or may not) place an obscure correction somewhere other than the headlines that they were wrong. (how about the OJ Simpson case? Enough media ranting). The problem with a report like this is that the data collected are limited and inconclusive and should be handled as such by rational thinking folks. The problem is here that it’s NEWS and it SELLS papers, airtime, interntet commercials etc. (there I go again bashing the media…sorry :<)
Now there’s a lot to be said for your statement regarding a rebuttal immediately, however there is a lot of room for the arguement waiting untill you have your ducks in a row to answer (especially if you’re not very comfortable with making public statements. My dad told me “if you tell a lie you have to remember everything you ever said to anyone so you can keep things straight. If you tell the truth you don’t’ have to remember anything.” ) after a lawyer sifts through it so you can protect yourself. (I realize that speaking from the heart can be easily misunderstood especially if there’s a story in it… owwww. sorry media bashing again). At any rate the whole thing stinks……
As much as I would like to think otherwise MLB players are entertainers and making sure that they perform at the best level that they can has a cost to it that’s for sure…. The problem with baseball is that all the individual records that are attained are not “apples to apples” across the ages based on a multitude of variables. (changes to the ball, mound height and a host of other things) Performance Enhancing Medications are one of those things and should be treated as such.
If MLB cracks down hard on PEM’s and does it’s due dilligence, roots out the problems and enforces it across the board… then it’s a good thing. If it turns a blind eye to some and goes hard after others it’s a bad thing.
At any rate the cat is out of the bag and I hope that some sort of sanity prevails..
Please forgive my spelling errors.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Curt,
I often wonder about you and your statistics. I know you’re one of the leaders in serving up HRs to Barry (of course, you were in the NL West and a starter for many years with him). I wonder what your numbers would look like if we substracted even him! It sounds like he already cost you a few wins and he’s the tip of the iceberg.
The funny thing is that you’re right about forgiveness. If Barry and Clemens got together and toured the country going high school to high school talking about how great they were but were then motivated to extend it with the steroids, and how foolish and terrible it was - how it changed them, their personalities and discreditted their accomplishments and why kids shouldn’t do it themselves, I think our country would forgive and the “character clause” in HOF voter’s mind would swing in their favor. These guys are basically Mays/Mantle or Drysdale/Koufax without the juice, but they wanted to be Ruth/Aaron or Young/Ryan. They were still top 5 players in their positions of all time without it.
As you said on WEEI, these guys have sent a message to millions (along with the many other juicers) that drugs can make your abilities enough to make you a millionaire. Barry and Roger have enough money to do this (take time to tour the country making their amends). Heck, Roger supposedly wants to mentor young players in his Astros role. What’s a better way to do this?
As a Curt Schilling fan, I wonder: how big would your statistics be if everybody else wasn’t juicing? Or if you had juiced, would your ankle have healed faster? Would you have that extra 7 mph that you believe you can get through very strict workouts and diet this offseason faster? Or would you have never lost it? What about Pedro? He has to learn to pitch without velocity too? Would he have comeback from his rehab faster if he had been juicing to continue to pile up his statistics?
Also, a non-rhetorical question: why does everybody keep saying, “we can’t delete the statistics!” Please explain why, other than, “it changes the nature of the game. We need to put it in the past.”
I believe you ARE a HOFer right now, and with the Mitchell report out, I definitely believe you are.
However, if you really want the HOF for yourself or for Shonda and your kids, here’s what I suggest you do: Contract a lab to take samples from you, blood and urine, every two weeks this season and have them frozen. 10 years from now when the tests are out that CAN find HGH and every other drug, show them that you won 20 games as a 41 y/o completely clean in an era of garbage. I know this is drastic with the samples, but I have faith that the rest of the plan you can do with your natural talent.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
sorry, quick amendment - by “everybody keep saying, ‘we can’t delete statistics . . . ‘ ” I meant everybody other than Curt, who obviously does believe we can delete the statistics
December 19th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Curt,
It took a bit to get your message out, but I think you are right. As a fan, you have no idea of the character, or personal makeup of a player unless you know them personally. I do know a player personally (I will not mention his name, as it has no bearing), and I know he is not a user, nor would ever do that type of thing. The average fan can not understand the life a ball player has. There are enormous amounts of pressure to produce, there are the charity events, signings and public appearances, etc… What I have learned is to respect that person’s space. The average fan thinks earning a lot of money entitles them to basically harass any player (in the media or in person). They just don’t get it
And exactly as you said it, if you are innocent, then bring the full brunt of the law to bear against any accusations. That’s what I would do.
Lastly, Senator Mitchell is an honorable person, and one who can not be touched when it comes to integrity. Any “fan” who says the report is biased, is not in touch with reality.
VJ in Okinawa
December 19th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Look, the only evidence cited against Clemens are allegations from one McNamee who has previously lied to federal investigators and is under indictment. So when Curt Schilling says Roger needs to refute the allegations or be judged a user (and face the consequences that flow from that), my feeling is he already has, and really needs to do nothing more. There are no checks, records, or any other type of corroborating evidence. So why should Clemens be required to do or say anything more, other than to say that McNamee is a liar. In other words, how do you prove a negative? Or how would Roger Clemens prove he did not take steroids?
I am no great fan of Roger Clemens. He left us in the “twilight of his career” and proceeded to win 4 Cy’s and 2 WS - WITH THE YANKEES. However, he cleaned up his act and became an ambassador of the game. I find it incredible that someone’s reputation can be dragged through the mud based solely on the statements of an indicted felon (which statements have been blessed with a sense of unimpeachable truth as a result of being included in the Mitchell Report). As Curt says ” [a]re we at a place where people are ok with names being thrown out this callously is ok?” He was talking about Canseco’s allegations against A-Rod, but at this point, I think Canseco has more credibility on this subject than Mr. McNamee. Just my opinion.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
I love baseball. In my mind, Its happiness on all levels. Its what I want to teach my 19 month old. He already can recognize it when its on tv and even, I promise its true, recognizes Papi and Manny by name when they appear on screen. But these days Im sad. Thanks, Curt. I appreciate your opinion
December 19th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Here is the real deal and I could care less what anyone thinks. HGH or Steroids or and other PED’s does nothing more than help a player recover from injury faster. It doesn’t take a .230 hitter to a .330 hitter. It doesn’t help a guy find the strike zone if he couldn’t before. The only thing it does is turn a warning track out to a homer run. Which in turn creates revenue for baseball.
This doesn’t mean its right but I would say they are cheaters rather call them crooks.
Crooks because the stance by most is that “It wasn’t illegal in baseball” is crap! It was illegal in the United States of America. I’m in the military and I have to follow the rules of the US government and the UCMJ and what ever country I’m in. Same as ball players should. Follow the rules of the country then follow the added rules of the organization you are in. MLB can’t legally loosen the laws of the land. Thats why I believe Bud and Don Fehr should be taking the fall in this matter. They are in charge and the guys have been doing this crooked stuff for years and they get a free pass. I say BS. No place else in corporate America could such a scandle occur and not have the top guy’s fired.
Thats my opinion!
December 19th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
And you really had never known or heard of anyone using steroids when you testified to the Senare? It’s not believable and why you lied only you know. Only Mark McGuire had the balls not to lie that day. That was the first sad day for baseball and steroids.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
curt
your opinion as a [ i think hall of famer] is valued . I am a huge Clemmens fan and i caught a bunch of crap in work about the report. I want to beleive it is not true but i am sure that it is. There is so much money to day in baseball that some players will do anything for that next big payday,stay clean and go to cooperstown Curt.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
First time on site.
your a blowhard. You went to Congress and for once you didn’t open your mouth - fraud.
your in the game - you know what you see - be a stand up guy - and tell yourside then. you want the game cleaned up - you could have shared thoughts with senator mitchell.
your exactly who i wouldn’t want to be friends with - guilty or not guilty aside - i am glad you stand behind what you called a friend.
there is an ongoing investigation in Florida - more names will come out - you can tell with an eye who is/was on something - particulary a certain batterymate of yours - he shrunk - a former sox ss shrunk, former RF - shrunk. detroit catcher shrunk, why so few names?
December 19th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Curt,
That’s a pretty high horse you’re riding. Firstly, why if someone confesses should they go unpunished? Why is Peittite, for being forthcoming, to be believed? As I recall, a couple of years ago Brian Roberts had an amazing (for anyone, not just Brian Roberts) first half. Is there any connection with his use of HGH? What about his numbers? Should an apology suffice? Why single out Clemens, then? Baseball has always been a “dirty game”. Even when the incentives (i.e. the money) wasn’t great. Racism, drinking, drug use, have all been constants in the league. Never mind, infidelity, cheating (between the lines), and a general oafishness on the player’s part. The Mitchell Report offers no surprises, I’m afraid, just a peek into a world that has always looked the other way when it comes to doing the right thing.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Excellent post C. Montague. I hope you know that Ol’ Dude Ranch launches all his bombs au naturelle. No PEDs here, just chicken parms and Megadeth.
Dealt it,
Dougie “Dude Ranch” Mirabelli
December 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Nice post Curt, I don’t agree with you much but I can’t disagree with much in this post. Its nice to hear some “real” talk. I agree also on the point of returned awards, just like Olympics medals, this should become the penalty for steroids. The only disagreement is that I believe Pedro was the better pitcher regardless of the lastest news.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I have a profound respect to you Curt for the statements you made about the allegations regarding Roger Clemens. As a baseball fan, I hope to god that those allegations are false, and that he is able to clear his name. To make those comments regarding such an influencial player on your career must have been difficult. It goes to show the charater that is so evident in many players in Major League Baseball, like yourself. One can dream that this character is what will carry baseball to the next level, and not this witch hunt to clean out the cheaters. I fully support all testing in every sport, including baseball, even if it means risking the respect that I have for my favorite athletes (The Floyd Landis Tour de France allegations still kill me). Either way, thank you for being candid on your beliefs, and being true to your mind and heart.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Okay, lots of stuff here. In order to respond thoroughly and accurately to these issues, seems to me would take many, many, many hours of research and analysis. That said, here are some thoughts from someone who is a but rushed for time tonight. (Haven’t started Christmas shopping yet!)
As for Sen. Mitchell and the issue of bias: Well, don’t completely agree with Curt on this one. There IS a significant conflict of interest here. What if Mitchell, during the course of his investigation, uncovered evidence that John Henry or Theo had done something outrageous, or found some other evidence that would make the Sox look really, really bad? Now sure, odds are probably long that something like that would happen or happened, but what if it did? Then what does Mitchell do? Some folks point to Theo’s email about Gagne as evidence that Mitchell was impartial. To me, that really means nothing. In fact, someone as smart as Mitchell would know that by including it, there might be less of a perception of bias or conflict; how do we know that wasn’t the motivating factor. Bury the good stuff, or don’t follow a few leads because they may lead to something worse, but include the email, because I (Mitchell) have to include something negative to look impartial here; after all, I just named Clemens and Petitte! Mitchell said a few times that soem of the players named played for a number of teams during their careers, but he left out the fact that it looks worse for organizations if players did PFDs while in your employ, not before or after the guy played for you. All that said, do I think the report was largely legit and accurate? Yes. But, in my opinion, there definitely was a conflict of interest there, certainly a potential one, anyway, and Selig and MLB made a mistake in having Sen. Mitchell, one of the officials of the Boston Red Sox, lead (or participate in) that “independent” investigation. The criticism of Mitchell on this point point, whose firm was paid millions of dollars for their work, is valid, in my opinion. All that said, I believe the report is accurate, and that Mitchell in all likelihood conducted the investigation impartially. But what would’ve happened when the going got tough? Pontious Pilate was doing the right thing until the mob became too insistent and he caved in to them. The point: everyone can do good when it is easy to do so; but the real test of courage is when the going gets tough.
Well, that’s all I have time for right now….wanted to get into Clemens and was not sure that Curt should have opined on the subject out of personal loyalty toward him - but I haven’t thought through the issue yet. Wanted to get into “defamation” issue as well….i believe to legally defame someone you have to know that what you are saying is false. To give a wrong opinion is not defamation, I don’t believe. I”m not saying Curt should have dropped names, but he not fear legally defaming someone by giving his opinion or telling the truth.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
The bottom line for me is that Pedro Martinez posted a 291 ERA+ pitching to hitters on PEDs. How ’bout that.
Just kidding (ok, not really). I am mostly in tune with your proposal, however impracticable it may be (no way the players’ association will sign something like that). Pete Rose got completely erased from baseball for something he did AFTER his career was over, I don’t see how these guys’ position is any better. Only problem is, they’re inevitably gonna be taking the flack also for hundreds of other players who used PEDs, and whose names didn’t surface. Mitchell himself admitted there are many others whom he couldn’t find. But stripping the titles, awards and numbers of those who WERE caught (provided, of course, that they are proven guilty) sounds good enough to me. We’ll see.
I don’t know about Pettitte, Roberts and the others who came forward. Obviously they wouldn’t have said a word hadn’t they been called out. Obviously it was “only once”, “to help my team”, “for healing quicker” etc. etc. I really can’t help but feel like a lot of players have fooled us around for the past couple decades. Although I had as much respect for Pettitte as a Sox fan could have, this has got nothing to do with my opinion of him as a person. He/they had illegal aids that other players didn’t.
My cold, misanthropic fan perspective is this: say what you want, but neither Andy Pettitte nor Brian Roberts are going to Cooperstown. Roger Clemens, though, was virtually already there - up til a few days ago. He has a lot more to lose.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Quick addition on Clemens that I left out above: I believe the Mitchell report in regards to him, and while it is regrettable that Clemens did not come out and tell the truth about his use of PEDs, it is not unsurprising, to me anyway.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Question:
honestly - How does anyone clear their name after that albeit guilty or not guilty? What proof do you (clemens, gagne whomeever) provide?
They come out and deny - they are lying. They say nothing guilty. Mcnamee is under oath - he has no reason not too lie - assuming clemens and others go under oath and tells his side - he’s still a liar. 1 other person in this world who has a vendetta and its two on 1 and he’s in jail. legacy and what have you vs. jail is a greater longterm consequence. how do you prove slander in this case? how does mcnamee prove he is telling the truth - he would be in jail without immunity.
You seem to have answers - explain council.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Mr Schilling,
Great post. However, bostondirtdogs.com has already “scandalized” your post.
In my opinion, Barry Bonds believes he did not lie, because he is in denial. If you think it didn’t happen, it didn’t, right? Same thing goes for Sheffield, he made a statement that he was not aware at the time what he was taking was the “clear” and led himself to believe that steroids were only injected. Seems like a cop-out to me.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Curt Schilling is dead on!!!
I am so sick and tired of people making up this ridiculousness that Senator Mitchell has no credibility. The report loses credibility for not naming more players….even heard all players. This is just ridiculous. WE ALL KNOW STEROIDS WERE A HUGE PROBLEM IN BASEBALL. Now that some of our heroes are getting called out, people want to just turn off their brains and discredit everything as pure speculation. I know…I know. You are innocent until proven guilty. Well that same concept goes for the guy that gets caught with his pants down and a child in the room engaging in sexual activities….so I don’t want to hear that mess.
Get a clue folks, ABRE LOS OJOS!!!!!!
Evereything has been tied together with plenty of corroboration. And now players are starting to take the (semi) high road and admit their faults. EXCEPT for Roger Clemens. I loved the guy myself. Since I was a kid. I still have all of his rookie cards. But I am not in denial. I know how to think.
I remember when the spec on Barry Bonds initiated. People were in denial then .Slowly but surely people started to believe when the FINALLY OPENED THEIR EYES and looked at the facts and evidence. Good thing for Clemens is that he can just ride off into his own world and not generate the amount of hatred that Barry Bonds created for himself after CHEATING the world and ripping off Hank Aaron for his HR record. And that goes for Mark (I need an edge to be) Big McGwire. They are all scum that were already players that were above the curve and were SOOO DAMNED GREEDY they had to score some dope to ice their cakes. And now some of you LAMBS have the audacity to ignore the facts and look down their NARROW %#^%$#ED tunnels and still see Roger Clemens as their hero.
Time might tell….but I am for sure…..TIME WILL TURN.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Curt
unlike you I obviously do not know any of these people who have been named in this report.one of the many things that struck me right after reading senator mitchells report was that Brian roberts in particular had a chance to deny the allegations against him as just he said she said testimony based soley on the word of someone who had been caught red handed.it appeared that there was no evidence at all against him(not even one person claimed to see him use or purchase any peds).that being said it is hard for me to feel anything but respect for a man who came clean when he really didn’t have to.I have no alternative but to take your word about the quality of the other men you mentioned.I like you just hope that all the people mentioned in this report that are guilty come clean so we can move on and enjoy another upcoming season.
Woody
December 19th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
(wow) In my opinion you nailed it.
Besides that a Merry Christmas and God Bless
December 19th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
I’ve been thinking about a testing system that might work, ever since the report came out… I don’t know if the Player’s Association would go for it, but it’s similar to the sort of thing done in other sports at varying levels of competition.
Keep the random testing, and increase how often that happens, but also, when it comes to the All-Star Game and the playoffs and beyond, test each player before each series begins.
This way, a player that’s cheating *might* still avoid getting caught during the season, but if he and his team make it into the postseason (or he gets selected for the All-Star Team), he’s likely to get caught at that point, and whatever penalty the Commissioner’s office chooses gets levied.
It doesn’t address HGH or the harder to test PEDs, but once we develop some tests for those, this seems like a fair way to test and catch those who are actually benefiting from cheating.
What do you think?
-Rick
December 19th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Curt, I enjoyed your post. It seemed from your opening paragraphs that you possibly did not want reply’s on this topic, however I wanted to take a chance and ask anyways. And I am not saying people are always guilty by association, and I am not trying to imply that since guys play on the same team that they all act the same way or do the same things, theres people that I work with or work at the same company that I have never talked to, people that I would call acquaintances, and people that I go out with on occasion and speak to every day.
That being said, as a player, and playing with some of the people mentioned, do these guys use the PED’s discreetly, at home possibly? I mean, if I saw a co-worker shooting herion, I would be shocked, I know I wouldn’t say anything, unless it meant losing my job, then I wouldn’t cover for anyone but me. But how do these guys obtain the PED’s, and how come this has took so long to come out? Are non-users covering for people that they know have used, or have they just not been pushed to the point where its “talk or else”? As a Sox fan, baseball fan, I don’t hate any of these guys, I am trying not to judge, but I feel just upset and disappointed. I agree with your opinion and if people stepped up, admitted they cheated, I would be able to forgive and move on (Giambi). I am not trying to imply that you are cheating or have covered for someone that used. That was long winded I know, if you can answer any of these questions, I would be grateful. If you can only answer one, it would be if found out a Steelers player cheated, and was disciplined, and then one of his teammates were found out to have covered (not said anything or when questioned denied that he knew his teammate used PED’s) would you be just as mad at the guy who covered for the cheater as you would be at the cheater?
December 19th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
It is sad that the use of PED’s was something that couldn’t have been taken care of by the players themselves. I have always wondered what someone like Curt or the hundreds of other non cheaters in baseball though while the game was being hijacked by cheaters.
Was it ever brought up to their union leaders? Why was their never a group of players that got together and said “Hey, I should not have to poison myself just to hold onto my spot”.
I think back to a few years ago when the Sox had a player named Mike Benjamin. I remember him being made fun of on EEI because he was so small . I wonder what he thought as players showed up to spring training with 20 pounds of new “muscle” and he was forced to compete against them. And then I would watch the highlights on NESN from 1986 and see that almost every single player on that team was about his size.
I belong to a union, and if there was a group of people that were gaining an unfair advantage against my earnings because they were engaging in illegal behavior, I would raise hell. I was hoping that the Mitchell report would have told some story about something like that. Surely there was a MLB player who over the past 20 years said “Enough!”. I would like to hear something from him.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Curt:
I am basically where you are on this subject. When you strip out all the legalise and carefully crafted statements and debates about standard of evidence and presumption of innocence and all the other standard statements people are hiding behind, common sense and logic would indicate that people’s behavior (including refusing to refute the charges before they got published to the world) is not consistent with people who have nothing to hide. Were I accused of something serious I did not do, I would be SCREAMING to anyone who would listen, and I would not be waiting to consult with the union or find an “appropriate time.” If people are innocent, what is the great mystery or need to strategize? It is unfortunate and disappointing and would not hold up in court, but you don’t have to be a genius to see what is going on. Thanks for being real about a difficult subject.
Mark
December 19th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Wow. I’m first and I am sure I will not be the last to comment here.
As fan of this game, I am deeply saddened by the surfacing of recent events. I feel as a fan, I was betrayed. Working hard to scrape up money for tickets that have now quadrupled in price, MBTA fare, and maybe a hotel room if I am lucky to watch some of the greatest althetes of my time play the game I love so much. I remeber when there were empty seats at Fenway and the only way to get on the top of the Green Monster was to use a very long ladder.
I was there in 1989 sitting in the box seats on the third base line chanting “steroids” at Jose Caseco along with other Fenway Faithful. Did we know for sure then? No. It was a hunch. The guy got bigger, faster than is humanly possible. Not like it helped his career at all. The most exciting thing he did that we saw as fans was date Madonna. And of course Alex was not named, nor do I belive he ever will be. That man has more God given talent in his pinky finger than Jose has in his whole body. I’m digressing. Moving on.
I was in attendance at the MLB Choice Awards in Orlando, Florida a few years back. Got to meet Cal Ripken Jr- what a class act. More people should be as polite and friendly as him. Wanted to introduce myself to David Cone, he seemed like he was also a very nice gentleman. Other players who I will not name, only because they were not named in the post here, were downright scary looking to me. Pockmarked faces and necks bulging out of their tuxedos. They had the biggest heads I had ever seen. They didn’t even look happy. When I got home and I compared the image in my mind to the rookie cards sitting before me, I was in shock. There is no way a daily workout and a few protein shakes can do this to a person. No way.
What hits me the hardest is that MLB players and their counterparts in the NHL, NBA, MLS, NFL and so on, are role models for young boys. What are they silently saying to them? Do drugs, it makes you better. You can’t win unless you cheat. Good guys finish last. Absurd and inexcusable.
The day that Barry Bonds* broke the record, I was sick to my stomach. The game I love to watch so much, was officially a laughingstock. Sad. I turned the channel everytime it came on.
On the flip side. I get it. I get the primal need to be bigger, faster and better than the next guy, no matter what the cost. Being number 1. The stakes are high, the money is higher. Do what you need to do to be the best of the best and stay at the top of your game for as long as possible. It’s like gambling. You hit 21 and you need to keep playing, bet more each time the cards are dealt beacuse you know in your gut, you can’t lose. It becomes an addiction spliced with fear. The person can’t stop, even if they wanted to. What a way to live.
Baseball, like all professional sports, is written not by the fans, the players themselves or by the media, but by the stat book at the end of the day. You are only as good as your last at bat or your last start. But is that really worth sacrificing your good name, your family, and your life? What kills me is these aren’t just actions of players, but actions of parents. And because of that, those found guilty, I may not be able to forgive.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Curt, I just wanted to thank you for your opinion and say how well written I feel this article was. Also, what the heck is going on in SF. I couldn’t imagine wanting to sit in jail rather than testify in court; but hey, I guess everyone is different…
December 19th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Great job Curt. When you see Dustin Pedroia, thank him for the article on the ProJo http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sox15_12-15-07_UU89AAQ_v3.45e79a8.html proclaiming himself to be part of the “clean generation”.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Profound and provocative words as usual, Curt. It is always largely appreciated on my half to hear your viewpoint as us fans (specific ballclub nonwithstanding) are really only left to ponder the inner workings of a professional ballplayer’s mind.
I have been walking the line regarding Clemens in the past week or so. As I am a college pitcher, I have always admired both Roger and yourself growing up in the Boston area. Reading your viewpoint has really assisted my transduction of this entire fiasco, and as such, I value it very highly.
Peter
Norfolk, MA
December 19th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Nicely said Curt. But i like to express my opinion about andy which is, i don’t think he just used juice (steroids, HGH whatever) to recover from injury. i beleive he did to enhance his performance and would have done multiple times. Regarding Roger, he is a disgrace to the game right from how he rants that he doesn’t play for money and then plays for the damm Yankees**********(note the asterick). He is definitely a Juice Guy. I respect you very much because you have the passion for the game and not for the money.
Thanks Curt for all that you have done for the sox…..GOOD LUCK for 2008 and hope that SOX will retire NO 38 after you retire from the game. I wont forget what you din in ‘04. Thanks again and good luck.
bye
Ramprasad
December 19th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Hey Curt,
I love your blog, I almost feel voyeuristic reading it.
I’m curious, if Clemens admitted it, (assuming he’s guilty) would that seal the deal of him not getting into the hall of fame?
I wish he would just be real and issue his own personal statement. Like you said in another blog, we are very forgiving and appreciate when someone admits to mistakes, no matter how big they are. How can you not forgive when a person is in a bad position?
As usual, thanks for a look inside.
Peace
December 19th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
In my humble opinion, I think there are bigger fish to fry than the use of steroids by professional athletes. Sure, they may provide a bad example for young people, but they are making the decision themselves. I wish there was as public an effort to get rid of NARCOTICS abuse, not only in sports, but in society. Prior to the report coming out, everyone had their suspicions that players were using banned substances, most of these arguments against the big sluggers, but also suspected that pitchers may be involved too. I understand the need to “level the playing field” but it may also be said that you could assume more may be using than we know, so the playing field may be level.
I’ve never come close to being able to play sports at a professional level, but if I thought taking something could give me a chance at a big league contract, I would consider it.
I have no problem with those athletes that have taken steroids, I only ask that they own up to it. It is those that are guilty of using and then deny it that I DO have a problem with.
–my 2 cents–
Chris,
Plainfield, CT
December 19th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Baseball historians will likely view the Mitchell Report as a stroke of genius by the Commissioners Office. I emphasize that the idea was devised by the Office and not the Commissioner since Bud Selig doesn’t impress me as having the level of genius to craft such a plan.
The report is obviously a device to pressure both the Player’s union and ultimately Congress to react to the truth, with the ultimate endgame seeing Roger Clemens being called to testify, with or without immunity. This would be both the darkest and most amazing spectacle in baseball history.
Hopefully the players will react positively and will move the game towards a more level playing field by adopting most if not all of Mitchell’s conclusions.
A worst case scenario, even worse than the continuation of head-hiding-in-the-sand, would be for Congress to get involved. Congress has a proven track record of having the anti-Midus, Excrement Touch and screwing up everything they handle (see: Healthcare, Education, Social Security and the Tax Code). In the face of this, I encourage Curt and his fellow members to take charge of the union that they own and save the game from the fate of government control.
Scott
December 19th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Curt, I am comforted by your reflections on Canseco. I feel the same way as you do. Canseco’s anger at MLB borders on obsession. His campaign to expose the PED matter is totally self serving, and not at all intended for the benefit of baseball’s reputation. I pity him and am angry at WEEI for giving him a platform for his mantra (but I guess it passes WEEI’s entertainment threshold).
As for the reality of Mitchell’s report, it has had the following affect on me, a 62 year old devoted fan of MLB and our beloved Sox. Prior to Mitchell’s report. I naively held on to the the supposition that the use of PED’s was confined to a relative minority of MLB players. Now, following the revelations of the Mitchell investigation, I now acknowledge that the violation of MLB’s drug policy is and has been much greater than I ever wished to acknowledge. I am disappointed in that revelation and am particularly disgusted with the two pedastal violators of official MLB policy, Bonds and Clemens.
Baseball is bigger than Bonds and Clemens and will rise above this tragic era. After all, baseball survived the much more threatening scandal of the early twentieth century with the Black Sox incident. Bonds, Clemens and the rest of the violaters are victims of greed and the culture of our times. I am sure that many of those violators are decent human beings (as you contend Brian Roberts is). Nevertheless, they all ignored contemporary medical advice and chose to introduce PED into their system for purposes of advancing their baseball careers.
I want to see our congress take a firm and absolutely clear stand on this matter and shake your union’s knee-jerk protective tendencies so that a reasonably measurable program can be instituted that will close the door on this disgraceful period in baseball history. MLB has never been as popular as it is today…..especially in Boston. This means unprecendented revenues to franchise owners and increased contracts with MLB players. There has to be accountability for those responsible for this result.
I would like to see Selig replaced by a commissioner with public appeal. Perhaps a baseball commissioner can be selected with a widespread voting process (vs. the current process which is much too incestuous).
Thanks for sharing your inner thoughts on this controversial matter. Baseball will overcome this challenge as it has many others in its past. Baseball is a mirror of USA culture, so lets learn from this and make the necessary adjustments to our lifestyle that better serves our selves, our familes and our communities.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Curt,
I signed up for an account solely to reply to your post. I appreciate reading your poised and unconcealed thoughts on this subject/report (of course I appreciate the two, so far, WS titles you’ve brought to Boston too!) I don’t always agree with your opinions, just like anyone, but I always agree with how you present them. Instead of harping on this subject, which I’m sure you’re done with since the post, I’ll ask: can you explain what you meant when you said Clemens undressed you as a pitcher? Was it mechanics-related or what? Thanks for keeping up the great work on and off the field!
December 19th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Hopefully this won’t be considered idiotic or a rant. It is off the cuff.
I think the saddest part of this whole affair is we are no longer talking about BASEBALL. The steroid scandal has erased everything else off the winter baseball scene.
I’d prefer to discuss the Giants rebuilding mode rather than Barry Bonds. I’d rather talk about how it looks like the Rays are (finally) looking like a team that wants to compete rather than rebuild. I want to ponder what the Red Sox or Yankees rotation might look like if Johan Santana is acquired.
This offseason has had more major trades than any other in recent memory. Good players are changing teams. Potentially good players are moving from place to place. While the AL looks like five teams competing in a four team race, the NL….well, it’ll be easier to predict the 3-4 teams that won’t be competitive.
Someone wake me up when the season starts.
Gary Renard,
Orlando, FL
December 19th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Schill,
Fantastic blog! Insightful, respectful, honest, a little self deprecating. I’m trying not to come off as some sycophant, but, in my opinion, this was your best piece ever. Great article! Everyone should be as forthcoming.
Keep the good stuff coming.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Wow. Thank you Schill for that - it was really interesting to hear you talk about this from a player’s perspective, as well as hear you articulate what a lot of us have been thinking.
I had a conversation with some of my students about the report, and we discussed that athletes need to act the same way we ask students to ask. If you make a mistake, admit it and apologize. Don’t try to cover it up. Sure, it’s not great that you made that mistake, and there still may be consequences for your actions, but by denying it you only make it worse. I feel the same way about guys like Roberts and Pettite. Yes, what they did was wrong. But for them to come out and admit what they did and apologize for it, rather than to continue to try to cover it up shows a good deal about their character. I hope that more players will act this way, like the role models so many hold them up to be.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
I live in Boston grew up loving baseball (since mid 70s). I have a hard time believing any player did not take (no offense Curt) enhancement drugs and feel the ownership and players union are disingenuous at best. Who should we believe?
The whole mess is tiresome and has further distanced my interest in the game.
I enjoy Fenway with clients but would not spend my own money.
You lost me and my kids are not far behind (Lacrosse).
But we still have nice days at Fenway to enjoy, at least not on my dime.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Dear Mr Schilling….I wandered into your page after reading comments you made on here in the NY Times. I will admit up front I am a Yankee fan. Having said that up front I just want to say I find you extremely arrogant and self absorbed. You have this tough guy image (and maybe you need (needed) it to be a “power Pitcher” that scares people. I find your comments about The Rocket and other players named in the report to be condescending. Get off your high horse. People do things all the time that they are not proud of, for most people it never plays out on the national news. The way these players are being smeared on the news is down right wrong, and with the comments you made it does not help the matter. Forget all your money, all your arrogance, and all you high and mighty stance and try to realize that these other players are you brothers in the league. Whether you support them or oppose them do it quietly. Keep your negative statements and thoughts to yourself. Pride my friend comes before the fall.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
ah… the beauty of the internet. Thanks for sharing those thoughts.
I read the entire Mitchell report after it was released. I was disturbed that most of the info came from really only 2 or 3 sources. I shudder to think what would happen to the sport if a complete “true” investigation were conducted.
I’m trying to move past this issue and report. I’m holding on to the fact that as I write this there are only 96 days, 6 hours and 27 minutes until the Red Sox open up the 2008 season.
I’ve only got to hang on for 96 more days, I guess.
rob
December 19th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Thank you for stepping up and saying it like it is.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Curt,
Thanks for the thoughtful and honest post. It’s greatly appreciated.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Got one major flaw there Curt boy … you were in the game and y